The Liberal Case for Guns

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, May 17, 2017.

  1. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #2
    Goodness...That host is annoying. I will watch the rest later.
     
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #3
    I don't care for the sign-in stuff.

    Suffice that I've yet to meet a firearm with a political agenda or a sexual connotation. Self-defense is a universal human right. Hunting and target shooting are optional.
     
  3. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #4
    And fun. :) Especially with Tannerite. :D
     
  4. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #5
    Owning a firearm is not a 'human right' by any stretch of the imagination lol. It's a modern day product that is owned purely by choice if the countries law permits.
     
  5. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Which mine does.
     
  6. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #7
    So does mine, but the difference is we are not obsessed by guns nor do we have it written into a constitution. We just have laws that allow people to own firearms if they wish. We are just not as militant about doing it in the UK.
     
  7. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Ironically it is your country that caused my country to have it written in the Constitution. So THANK YOU!
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #9
    There were no restrictions on gun ownership in the UK until the 20th century...
     
  9. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #10
    there was a UK back then?? slaves were a bit part of why it is in the constitution.
     
  10. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Which doesn't make it a "universal right". It makes it permitted by law.
     
  11. TheHateMachine macrumors 6502a

    TheHateMachine

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    #12
  12. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

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    The liberal case is quite simply: people have a right to defend themselves against injustice. Just as people have the freedom to pen their crybaby op-eds about Donald Trump, people have the right to spill blood when their rights are violated by a tyrannical government.

    Liberals tend to forget, or perhaps become lazy and apathetic towards it, but the reason that the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution is to prevent, say, Donald Trump, from turning this country into a fascist police state with 0 possibility of resistance. If you don't have firearms, and, thus, power, that enables the People, then a government will easily crush you. The threat of armed revolution if a government becomes intolerable should be as celebrated as any of the other rights bestowed upon us in the United States Constitution.

    Unfortunately, liberals, although well-meaning, have largely lost sight of this in their comfortable lives (and you could extend this to Americans in general).
     
  13. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #14
    And look at the comparison between our nations in the 21st century. We've restricted unnecessary assault weapons after the Hungerford shootings, then handguns after the Dunblane massacre and now have pretty much a gun free society. You guys have mass shootings every week and simply flood your homes with more guns. You're also paranoid to the extent you think you need weapons to protect yourselves against your own government. You should be blaming us, not thanking us...
     
  14. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #15
    Maybe the US should look at how democracy works in other western countries rather than dividing itself between conservatives and liberals and basing every argument on pathetic extreme digs either way? The fact you claim to be the most developed country in the world but still fear your own elected government is actually quite laughable in this day and age.

    If you had more control over your government and a more free voting system then you wouldn't have to arm up and be so paranoid.
     
  15. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Welp, not much to say here. I can't convince people to stop voting for democrats and republicans (I've tried) maybe you'll have better luck?

    And I'd say having a healthy skepticism of government is a cornerstone of democracy. Any country that doesn't have this is asking for trouble, and tyranny. Remind me again how many dictators have risen to power, or how many world wars or whatnot the United States has started? It's a lot harder to rise to power when you have a country full of people who are willing and able to take you down. There's not much the, say, Italians can do the next time a Mussolini figure roles around. What are they going to do? Throw pasta at him?
     
  16. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #17
    As a rant, you post rates for entertainment purposes, as a piece of historical analysis, unfortunately, it is utter tosh.

    Anyway, strange and wonderful to relate, in modern Italy a modern Mussolini figure can only "roll around" if sufficient ballots allow him or her to do so, so that is a pretty specious argument.

    Europe's dictators of the 20s and 30s were a response to a specific set of circumstances in countries where democratic structures and institutions were either not sufficiently enduring to have become embedded, not sufficiently told to have acquired the patina of tradition, - or not accepted - by significant elites (such as the military, and the old land owning classes, not to mention the Catholic Church) in some of the respective countries.
     
  17. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Well clearly I'm not going to lay down a detailed historical framework for an off-the-cuff jab at Europeans and their history of letting crazy people come to power.

    But the point still stands, whether you want to consider dictators (not just in Germany or Italy) or kings and queens. Part of the reason such a power grab has never happened in the United States is because the people are heavily armed. It's far more difficult to institute an overt takeover of a people who can fight back.
     
  18. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #19
  19. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #20
    A lot of laws are made up by international standards bodies these days. And they aren't democratic at all.

    And the primary reason for that is because the US congress is so dysfunctional.
     
  20. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I don't follow
     
  21. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Not sure how it works on the international level, but many state laws are just slightly modified versions of a model law written by a think tank for a specific purpose and then said think tank gets lawmakers in various states to introduce the law and get it passed. So many states end up with similar laws promoting a specific agenda.
     
  22. smallcoffee macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Sure but I don't see how that relates to the post that I wrote.
     
  23. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #24
    I would bet the software is acting up again. He probably quoted a different post but it used yours.
     
  24. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #25
    Part of the reason a power grab has "never happened" in the United States is becaue the people have become too hypnotized and dumbed down by infotainment to be able to understand that the grab is already in the rear view mirror. Donald Trump isn't out to make America great again, he's going to help finish the grab. Wake up. The enemy isn't some government tank coming over the hill and we're supposed to take our pea shooters out and peg it back to the town sheds. The enemies are ignorance, apathy, and encouragement of the 99% by the top 1% to keep getting down in the mud and yelling "you right wing lockstepper" and "you leftwing lockstepper" instead of asking the government (which is us) to ask who's on first and who made K Street the king. It doesn't take a gun in the USA to re-establish the power of the people. The Constitution is actually still in good shape. It's us got lazy about enforcing it.
     

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