The melting of Antarctica was already really bad. It just got worse.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/03/16/the-melting-of-antarctica-was-already-really-bad-it-just-got-worse/

    Nuclear power is not a solution we will consider, however. Windmills, solar cells, bicycle lanes that nobody uses and abolishing capitalism are the only ideologically correct options. Dissenters are Koch stooges who will submit to immediate reeducation.
     
  2. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Let's agree that a) Global climate change is definitely occurring and b) that modern human activity is playing a significant role in this.

    But what, realistically, is the solution here?

    Humanity simply cannot go back to a level of carbon dioxide emissions that we had in 1800. For several very good reasons, such as the fact that there are probably twenty times more people on the planet now. If one of of the "solutions" to Global Warming is the death (via starvation, cold, pandemic, war, flood, whatever) of several billion people - then I guess we'd all be better off taking our chances with rising sea levels and more violent storms.

    Secondly, we need to be realistic about what we can can do. Meaning, lets not kid ourselves that buying a Prius and a couple of LED lightbulbs is really going to make any difference. Even if everyone in North America and Europe drove hybrid cars; heated their homes with solar/wind generated electric heat pumps; etc. etc. - this Global Warming beast is already out of the cage. And three billion Asian people buying cars and dishwashers is going to accelerate that trend. And we ethically have no business telling those people they can't have cars or dishwashers.

    I'm concerned about Global Warming. I listen to the scientists about what the causes are. But its about time some of those scientists started coming up with workable solutions to the problem.

    Thats what I want to start hearing about.
     
  3. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #3
    I think the solution is simple: do everything we reasonably can. No one thing is going to make a significant difference, but doing thousands of things can. It's not a very exciting answer, sure, but it's the realistic one.

    It's kind of like the nutritional secret to long life isn't going to be eating chocolate or drinking red wine or anything fun and exciting like that. It's eating a variety of foods, mostly fresh and natural, in moderation. Boring, I know. But there it is.

    We also don't need to kill everyone off. The world's population should start naturally shrinking in the latter part of this century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth
     
  4. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    #4
    I'm concerned the issue may be that whatever Americans do is more than buried by the complete negligence of the environment in larger, less developed countries.
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    Like China & India?
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #6
    But if these climate change scientists are to be (and I do believe them) - its already too late. Even if all human-centric carbon emissions stopped tomorrow, the planet is already spiraling into a unstoppable greenhouse condition.

    Its like adopting your sensible diet recommendations after coming back from the doctor and being told you have an incurable form of cancer with three months to live. Why bother with the healthy fruits and veg - I might as well pig out on deep-fried chocolate cigarettes dipped in heroin dust.
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #7
    I am investing in carbon credits and inflatable boats , just in case:p
     
  8. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #8
    What studies say it's already too late? What do you mean by unstoppable greenhouse condition?

    We're not talking about 1 person with three months to live. We're talking about billions of people and the survival of our species.
     
  9. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #9
    Even in the worst case scenario, it'll never be so bad that we'll face extinction due to the changing climate alone.

    Besides our coasts shrinking by a few miles, the biggest challenges we'll face as a species will be the sudden shortage and changes in normal food supplies. Some ocean species will go extinct, which means that countries that rely heavily on harvesting the seas will end up having to supplement their food supplies from elsewhere. Places that were once breadbaskets will go barren, while other places suddenly become breadbaskets. In some situations, we might be able to grow more food over a larger portion of the globe than we previously were. Plants do love CO2, after all.

    So the biggest threat to the survivability of the human race won't come from the changing climate directly. It'll come from us. All these shifting boons, detriments, and mass migrations will lead to massive political messes, which could lead to war. As far as the climate goes, we can weather it (olol). It won't be fun, but it's hardly the literal end of the word. It's whether we have the maturity and good will to weather it with grace and understanding that's the question.
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #10
    so the answer would be to trim the herd by a lot in order to put us back to manageable levels?
     
  11. zin macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Antarctic sea ice extent and sea ice area have consistently been above average (and growing) for many years. It has had a positive anomaly for a very long term.

    I think your title is misleading.
     
  12. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #12
    No. That would be not handling the situation with grace and understanding. Chances are good that we'll still have just as many places to produce crops as we do now, they'll just be in different places. Pogroms wouldn't be necessary.

    The problem is entirely political and economic. We're going to have all kinds of people moving about over the next couple hundred years due to the changing coastlines, which means more burden on countries that are well off. And with the changes in food supplies, countries that are now well off, might not be in the near future. Vice versa for those that aren't.

    Like if the Russian Steppes become the new breadbasket of the world, while the American midwest withers, will Russia willingly produce food to feed the world, or will they play this boon to their own advantage, starving out their enemies, while feeding their friends? If it's the latter, will those who have been deemed their enemies take it and roll over, or will they fight for it?

    The future environment is going to be different, but it can still easily maintain human life. It's the political issues that are the most concerning.
     
  13. sigmadog macrumors 6502a

    sigmadog

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    #13
    "Ideologically correct"?

    Nice ideology, Comrade.
     
  14. MacNut macrumors Core

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    #14
    I don't see a viable solution that we as a society can live with. We are nowhere close to getting off of fossil fuels. Lets say we do find something that gives us the power output that oil does, how long would it take to retrofit every home and business if we started today. And how much would that cost and who would pay for it. Solar is a stop gap, not a final answer. People hate Nuclear and the disposal of the waste that we don't really have a viable solution for. The main issue is there are more people on the planet then the planet can handle. With drugs and modern medicine advancing that problem will only get worse. So how do we reverse course? I don't see the internet shutting down, and that runs a lot of power. We are certainly not going back to candle light.
     
  15. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #15
  16. technosix macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    I agree.

    Fear mongering gets people's attention.

    To the level headed thinkers its a source of amusement..:)
     
  17. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #17
    You do know what communism is, right? On top of that, you do realize there aren't any people here who advocate for it, nor consider themselves communists, right?

    So why the hell are you bringing it up like some kinda counterpoint?
     
  18. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #18
    Historically, that is how Commies chose to deal with the inability to feed the proletariat after thier policies failed. Let 'em starve and die a slow death. Or hasten it by means that bring it about all at once. Then blame others for it.
     
  19. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #19
    I suspect they'll start to implement harsher restrictions in the near future, given the air quality problems of these countries.
     
  20. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #20
    Yeah? And what does that have to do anything anyone's saying in this thread?
     
  21. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #21
    You taking that personally says something. What, only you can reveal. Care to share?
     
  22. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #22
    Actually, I think it's more telling of you that you see communists where there are none.
     
  23. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #23
    That it's possible and it may happen depending on his things shake up with the major players
     
  24. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #24
    It's The Washington Post's title. Not mine.
     
  25. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #25
    Yeah, in that context, it's very possible. Extremist philosophies tend to gain in popularity when things are unstable.

    That said, you know that wasn't how he meant it. He's just...you know...calling people commies.
     

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