The Militarization of America under the Republicans

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    The Militarization of America under the Republicans.

    Building walls (literal and figurative)

    Increasing Defense spending at least $100 billion more than requested.

    United States and South Korea joint military exercises (in face of NK meeting)

    National Security reason of implementing broad tariffs on Steel and Aluminum (and its flawed reason)

    National Security reasons to force increase in electrical prices to save a few coal and nuclear power plants.

    Deploying more US military along boarder and areas over seas.

    Banning people from certain parts of world (travel ban).

    what else??

    Yes, I know security is good, but who wants to have a neighbor build 15 foot high walls around your house?
    I am not really opposed to promoting a vibrant steel and Al industry in the US, but his that is an underhanded way of government takeover of industry.

    Of course #45 is the one doing all this, however the Republicans more or less allowing #45 bulldoze free-market and due process makes this a Republican program (not to mention some of #45 tweets in support).

    Is #45 is still fighting WW2?

    Discuss
     
  2. eltoslightfoot macrumors 6502a

    eltoslightfoot

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    #2
    Don’t forget the militarization of the local police force under GWB and Obama. This is just continuing a lot of those practices.
     
  3. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #3
    One pre-45 policy, vs the list provided.
    and IIRC was reversed after Ferguson.
     
  4. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #4
    Obama militarized Police? Documentation please.
     
  5. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #5
    Obama didn't literally per se militarize the police. But police had greater access to military surplus during the Obama administration. After Ferguson Obama banned the sales of some equipment, which of course meant 45 had to turn around over turn that ban. Thus police are now allowed again to indulge in militaristic fetishes at tax payer expense.

    http://www.newsweek.com/trump-wants...ipment-practice-obama-prohibited-after-655926

     
  6. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #6
    Clinton did, exhibit A being Waco. Ruby ridge before may be A and Waco B.
     
  7. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #7
    Those were police actions. And is it bad if the police outgun the armed cultists?
     
  8. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #8
    Ruby Ridge was in 1992, before even the election.
     
  9. Zenithal macrumors 604

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  10. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #10
    That was ATF, not police.
    ATF is in some ways a para-military organization (and IMHO should be significantly reorganized. FAQ: it was originally an organization to collect taxes).
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #11
    In al honesty we need to build up our military. It's not just what we face now, but the rate of change in the PRC. That being said, if money is being spent on the military, it should be spent efficiently and well. I am not convinced that it is (F-35; LCS; new nuclear aircraft carriers; etc.). Our ships and bases are vulnerable.
     
  12. bopajuice Suspended

    bopajuice

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    #12
    All interesting points, and I would like to add he is undermining our democracy by interpreting the constitution as he sees fit. I don't know... Anyone who says he can pardon himself sounds like a Dictator to me. He pretty much declared he is untouchable. Declares he can be exonerated of any crime, has a strong military at his disposal, is isolating us from the rest of the world, attacks anyone who threatens him or questions his authority. The making of a Dictator.
     
  13. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #13
    Need to put as bullet (HA!!) points.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #14
    Do..do you have any idea how expansive the American military network is? This is the only nation on the planet with *conventional* force projection capability to strike literally anywhere in the world in a few hours notice.

    We let this beast get any bigger and we might as well close up shop, this mindset is how empires fall.
     
  15. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #15
    Build it up how?

    More men, or more effective monitoring?
    More semi-autonomous drones, or more boots in combat zones?
    More bases over seas, or keep on US soil only?
    More ships that are vulnerable to missiles, or focus on missiles? (PS cannot sink and island, why China is making bases out a bunch of them)

    (FYI, the old battleships could actually survive attacks by missiles, its armor is stronger than most anti-ship missiles).

    I think we can substantially reduces costs but keep the same global dominance.
    That does need promoting a bunch of very young officers to generals so they can make the changes the old ones will think impossible.
     
  16. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #16
    It continued thereafter as criminals began using more firepower, then the police got more firepower and so on. LA riots, North Hollywood bank robbery and on and on and on.

    Crap like this:

     
  17. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #17
    The UK's military network was quite large before WWII, but (1) it did not act as a deterrent and (2) the UK nearly got its ass handed to it. The UK had the wrong weapons, in the wrong places, with complacent outmoded thinking in many aspects. I worry the US is doing the same. If we have a military then the people in that military should have better chances than surviving more than 5 minutes in the event of war.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 10, 2018 ---
    The problems with ships is that they're vulnerable to torpedoes (e.g., the Belgrano). Most ships would not survive a sustained air attack for very long (again, remember the Falklands?). And do not forget that while warships bristle with various countermeasures, the support ships do not. With respect to land bases, particularly air bases, they're vulnerable to missile attack. It's not as though they can move out of the way of the incoming ordnance. Even if planes are launched they would have nowhere to land when returning. I am no military expert, but it does seem like our military has emphasised offence at the expense of resilience.
     
  18. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

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    #18

    Technology has rapidly changed since the 1940's. Radar was pretty much a brand new technology and in very limited use at the start of the war. Also, they didn't have a nuclear deterrent, as it didn't exist yet. Germany would've never attacked/invaded any country if they had nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. Mutually Assured Destruction has kept the former Soviet Union and the US from fighting a bloody war for decades.
     
  19. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #19
    Yep, police agencies have been regularly upping their firepower for decades—lots of police agencies have M113s for parades—but post-Iraq War, the Law Enforcement Support Office (part of the Defense Logistics Agency) started selling MRAPs to podunk police agencies for pennies on the dollar.

    In Johnson County, Ill., the sheriff's department spent $5,000 for slightly-used MRAP that cost American tax payers $733,000. This was meant to replace an old "Peacekeeper," an armored vehicle made by Cadillac Gage.

    Of course, for anyone paying attention to DoD budgets, it's abundantly clear that the MRAP is a terrible vehicle for police agencies. It's huge, overbuilt, and the maintenance for one approaches $60,000 per year. According to one analysis, SOCOM spent around $280,000 per vehicle trying to keep them going in Iraq in 2009.

    Even the weight alone is a problem, another analysis noted that the curb weight for the two models of MRAP are 18 to 24 tons, which means a loaded MRAP might overtax a small bridge, and the height of the vehicle also represents a problem.

    I know of one agency that tried to use the MRAP in a rugged area and snapped an axle, forcing them to tow the vehicle back where it now sits, only to be brought out one a year for a parade.

    I'm also fascinated by the new trend of having motorcycle cops carry M4s on their ride.

    I'd be really interested to see how these MRAPs were used after their purchase, and my assumption is that they were driven to houses for warrant arrests, and that a regular Chevy Suburban could have fulfilled the same role without any changes.

    One thing that was clear from Ferguson is that police actions often spurred violence, and that in many cases, robust community policing has a better outcome than militarization. Though having a bunch of cops ride bikes and talk to people is far less sexy, and interesting to the military industrial complex, than purchasing Lenco Bearcats.
     
  20. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #20
    That's the best argument I've seen here lately against our having gutted the State Department's ability to inform and support the true art of diplomacy on more fronts than just handing the big guy or his inner circle a ring binder of FAQs en route to some show of summitry with another head of state.

    But alas, too late now. It could take two generations to regain the equivalent of expertise that Trump's admin has set adrift.
     
  21. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #21
    China has increased defense spending in recent years, but they're still nowhere even close to the size of the US defense budget.

    [​IMG]
    It is a crime against the American people that we can't ensure healthcare and higher education for our citizens, but we can spend more than the next 7 countries combined on a game of global domination.
     
  22. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

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    #22
    I don't get why Republicans think that it is fine to arm every citizen with as many weapons as possible, including criminals, but cry out when law enforcement gets upgraded to respond to this. Could someone explain that to me?

    ...A game which it seems to overthrow quite fast at the moment.
     
  23. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #23
    We can afford social programmes and effective military spending. Right now we have neither IMO.
     
  24. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #24
    It is far easier to keep a land base in service than a ship. Even bunker-buster bombs may not critically damage a facility reinforced areas (and needs to be delivered from a very long distance).

    I do worry the US is fighting the last war. When things go bad, the US will be very unprepared. Happened in Afghanistan and Iraq 2, where we not prepared for IED and guerilla war.
     
  25. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #25
    Runways are easy to crater.
     

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