The Most Discriminatory Law in the Land

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #1
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ist_law_that_punishes_the.html?wpsrc=upworthy

    3
    cant fee them don't bring them into the world, why should her welfare check get bigger simply because she wants to continue popping out kids?:confused:
     
  2. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #3
    yes. but I don't think it matter if I am, condoms/BC= plenty of ways to avoid a pregnancy, I have no problems with people having kids, here.

    [​IMG]
    yes I know he is an Atheist.
     
  3. samiwas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #4
    I just really don't take anyone seriously who uses the "forces me at gunpoint to blah blah blah" line unless they are actually being robbed.
     
  4. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #5
    Fair enough. Any other thoughts?
     
  5. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #6
    There are plenty of ways to avoid a pregnancy, but none of them are 100% effective. Unintended consequences can and will happen to even the most prepared of people.

    I think we should push sex education in schools far harder than what we do, and yeah, I believe we need to push the idea of personal responsibility on our allegedly impressionable teenagers. But people have lapses in judgment. Smart people can make stupid mistakes. Sometimes, usually, more than once. When it happens, I don't think a mother, father, and their children should watch their lives crumble to dust because of it. Sometimes, people need assistance.

    And Penn Jillette? I've never been too sure how to take him. He's not a stupid guy, and I do agree with him on a number of issues, but he comes across as a little too pat and glib sometimes.
     
  6. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #7
    Not much problems with welfare as long as there are caps & time limits. I don't think people should keep abusing the system by simply having more kids
     
  7. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #8
    Welfare Queens? They're almost an urban legend. There probably have been a handful of women who have attempted that, but that's all there is. A handful. Nowhere near enough to make up even a single percent of welfare recipients.

    The woman in question isn't one of them. She's just in the midst of dealing with an unplanned pregnancy that netted her not one, but two extra mouths to feed.

    Should she have been more responsible? Probably, yeah. But that moment has come and gone, and talking about it now is nothing more than being a preachy "I told you so". The question isn't what she should've done then. It's what she needs now.
     
  8. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #9
    She could try working. Going to school. Where us the father in all if this?
     
  9. NukeIT macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    #10
    So the government not handing her more "free money" is punishment??

    Oh that's right, they are entitled to that government subsidy.
     
  10. samiwas, Jun 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014

    samiwas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    #11
    Sure.

    I don't support the idea of heading out free money to people who sit at home and pop out kid after kid in order to rake in welfare checks. But using that as an example of people on welfare is akin to using Bernie Madoff as an example of what rich people are like.

    I don't want to support leeches any more than anyone else. But when it comes down to it, the children didn't ask to be put in this position. And yes, I'm going to sound like the woman on the Simpsons. The children involved have no way to find a better situation or to feed themselves. They are reliant on the parents. If you can find a way to get food and comfort to the kids while leaving the parents out to dry, then go for it!

    Unfortunately, this is the image of welfare that many people have. They think they're all lazy do-nothing moochers who pump kids out in order to up their benefits, when in reality, it's a very small percentage of them.


    Does it say anywhere in the article that she doesn't work? Also, as for "where is the father", the woman says several times "We didn't have money", "When we had the twins". I assume the father is there.

    But this is the reality in a country where people celebrate low wages as an incentive to do better. You support paying $16,000 a year to a full-time worker, you're going to see this. That's this little thing we call reality.
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #12
    Depends on her situation. There are so many hours in a day, if she has to work a job or two just to feed her kids and pay the bills, she won't have time to go to school. I once posted an article here about a woman who worked two jobs, slept 5 hours a night, took care of her kids, but was still desperately poor, and had no chances of upward mobility because the position she found herself in prevented her from doing anything more than tread water.

    She tried getting a higher paying job. She couldn't. One reason, so superficially pathetic, is because she had bad teeth. She didn't have insurance, and couldn't afford dental work. No one wants to hire a woman into a high paying position working with the public who has bad teeth. She couldn't go to school, because she was working two jobs that were only paying barely enough to feed her kids and pay her bills. She couldn't save any money. If she got sick, or if she were hurt, she wouldn't have been able to feed her kids, or keep a roof over their head. The stress of her condition and working herself half to death made her gaunt and pale. She looked sickly. With the bad teeth, most people thought she was on drugs.

    ...I need to find it again.

    We like to think that everyone has the chance to better themselves, but that's not always the case. Far more often than it should, people are finding themselves quite literally stuck in a nearly unsustainable position. And yet others feel the need to judge them for not doing what they personally believe these should be doing. It's not that they won't do anything to better their lives. It's that they can't.

    Yeah, she could merely be a lazy welfare moocher, expecting something for nothing. She could also be doing everything within her power to support her family, working 10 times harder than we ever have for far, far less, and still needing all the help she can get just to keep clothes on the backs of her children. We don't know. Yet here we are, talking to each other on nice, expensive computers on a hobbyist messageboard for said expensive computers, judging her poorly based upon the one thing we know about her: she's getting welfare.

    Never presume the worst in people, and never judge them until you fully understand their circumstances.
     
  12. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    #13
    Those methods have been 100% effective for me for the past 17 years, as they have been for everyone else I know who is serious about not wanting to have children. There is no such thing as a surprise pregnancy, if you do safe sex correctly.
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #14
    If the father isn't there with four kids honestly the best thing she can do is to be a full time mum.

    All of which are probably ~50% effective over a lifetime if used correctly (which is hard).

    Either you make abortion liberally available and actively encourage it for people like this or you shut up and hand out cash so they can look after the kids they have to a basic degree.

    You can, you can take the kids into care, but that's very expensive and has worse outcomes if she's a decent mother.

    ----------

    I'm sure they've been effective for you over the past 17 years, but I'm sure at least some of your friends have lied to you about it. All they have to do is go on a little holiday to the UK and get one on the NHS.
     
  14. NukeIT macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    #15
    She is not merely a welfare recipient, but a recipient that is testifying that the system is unfair and punishing her because she CHOOSE to have another child.

    I believe in welfare, WIC, food stamps for a limited duration for those that have fallen on hard times and to help prop them back onto their own feet. Not for those that choose to put themselves in a worst place and then expect the rest of us to support them.

    She choose to consent to sexual relations, she choose to continue the pregnancy, she choose to raise the child vs giving it up for adoption... All her choices, however she expects the public, by way of welfare, to pay for this child.
     
  15. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #16
    Let me tell you a really personal story. It happened one happy night a few years back, I was...yeah, might as well be blunt, I was getting some. All sweaty, sticky, drooly. I might've cried a bit. It was great!

    So I get to that...er...happy end point, and I...uh...disengage (I'm trying to keep this as family friendly as possible here), and when I look down, I notice something horrifying. The condom I was wearing? It was no longer covering. I had gone through it. And these weren't cheap vending machine condoms, man. They were Trojans! I bought them at CVS!

    Yeah, it's funny in retrospect, but at the time, she and I were all running around screaming and crying, trying to find morning after pills and going "what do we do what do we do what do we do". We were on eggshells for three weeks after that. And even worse, she had bad Chinese shortly after The Incident, and mistook what was probably food poisoning for potential morning sickness. Fortunately, I lucked out. Guess sitting so close to that old tube TV when I was a kid did have some up sides.

    So no, nothing's ever 100% effective.
     
  16. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    #17
    And she wasn't pregnant. So I guess safe sex methods (plural) are still at 100%.
     
  17. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #18
    Yeah, she made her choices, and she's now asking for assistance. But that's the thing. I'm having a hard time judging her based on what she's asking for. Diapers, wipes, baby seats. Bare necessities. Yeah, it costs money, but not that much. Not even when spread about to potentially millions of women. The government blows wads of taxpayer cash on far stupider, less beneficial things.

    To play another card for a second, when you bring in pro-life, pro-choice into the equation, it seems low-income women are damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to bringing children to term and raising them. Someone somewhere will not be pleased with the choices they've made.

    ----------

    Yeah, I was having safe sex, but the safe sex methods failed me. It's more a here by the grace of God situation.
     
  18. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    #19
    Again, plural. A condom is only one part of safe sex. BC should also be utilized, and a guy shouldn't be finishing inside. So even if the condom had broken (and there are reasons that happens, too), no issue.
     
  19. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Location:
    Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
    #20
    Funny story about the BC, too. I've shared enough, though. :p

    But yeah, you're right. I was younger and dumber back then, and apparently extremely lucky.
     
  20. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #21
    In the real world no one actually does that though.

    ----------

    Why don't we sterilise the poor once they've had 1-2 children like they do in China?
     
  21. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    #22
    I wish my state had this law. People who are on welfare should understand that getting pregnant isn't going to help their situation. We make choices in life, we have to understand that already being on welfare and deciding to have additional children isn't a good decision.
     
  22. barkmonster, Jun 20, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014

    barkmonster macrumors 68020

    barkmonster

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2001
    Location:
    Lancashire
    #23
    I agree. I, like a lot people post-credit crunch, ended up out of work only finding temporary work for lack of anything permanent. It's a nightmare to pay monthly rent with fortnightly payments and to have to deal with all the cuts the UK government have made but it's only meant to be a buffer between jobs. Poverty instead of destitution.

    The problem is, people who end up redundant don't choose to be. There's plenty of generationally entitled sperm dumpters out there popping out kids when they're still practically kids themselves and calling it a right.

    They've never paid their way in life for one month, just living with parents, then sponging a council flat they're entitled to for the sake of a kid they didn't have to go through with having in the first place.

    It's the only situation where creating your own poverty voluntarily is given a free pass and one thing I notice about preachy "pro-life" types is that they're actually "pro-birth". They want the illusion of moral superiority (and their ego loves it too), but don't want to consider the responsibility. They usually hypocritically have a chip on their shoulder about "their taxes" funding benefits too.
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #24
    So do you support some equivalent to the one child policy complete with compulsory abortions and sterilisation for the poor? Basically as per China?
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #25
    I don't think there are any easy answers here. That's why I'm making the comment about sterilisation. I'm not really sure what the right answer is.
     

Share This Page