The most wicked character ever created.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by WiiDSmoker, May 17, 2011.

  1. WiiDSmoker macrumors 65816

    WiiDSmoker

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    #1
    Just some thoughts...

    The classic argument is simply that god is supposed to be all knowing, all powerful, and all good. So how come there is suffer ring and pain in this world? Why does god allow it? Obviously if god is all good, then should think that this is bad that all occurs, but rather it wouldn't occur, like any decent person would, yet he lets it occur. Now that would be fine if he didn't have the power to not let it occur, yet god is meant to be all powerful. We're told by religious people that he intervenes all the time. So why doesn't he intervene to prevent the death of a child or torture of a prisoner, etc? He doesn't do it. So, you could conclude from that that god is actually quite bad. But what you can conclude from this is that the combination of these two characteristics are simply inconsistent. He's all good. He's all powerful, and of course he's all knowing, because he knows it going to occur.

    The standard reply to this from the apologist Christians, is that god created humans with free will, so evil can occur. But why would god do this knowing that these would be the results. That's pretty horrific coming from a person with compassion, so even at that we know it was a horrible decision to come to on his part.
    So let's put the standard reply aside for a minute.

    The problem is that not all the suffering in this world comes from the exercise of human free will. Natural catastrophes, disease, accidents, all sorts of things can cause suffering. A child being born with a genetic disease, no humans had any free will role in the outcome of creating this situation. That comes from nature, god's creation, of course we're told. So god created a world in which suffering is inevitable for human beings.

    The argument to that would be that god created the obstacle course for humans in order to bring out the best in humans. So you have the innocent child with some horrible disease and god is up there saying "I really need to test some people here, let me pick on this newborn child. Let's put them through this terrible ordeal and I'll test her close family." If any human being had the power to do that and said what they've done that they wanted in their wisdom to test some people, to improve their morale character, you would think they are the most wicked person in the world to do that. Then if that's what god does then why have any respect toward him whatsoever. I certainly don't. It's a wicked thing to do.
     
  2. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #2
    Why would a god create creatures simply for the purpose of testing them (Abrahamic religions)? If you don't adore and worship this mysterious god you will burn in hell for eternity. Many people will suffer hell on earth through no fault of their own and then suffer hell for eternity. Is god egotistical and vengeful? It appears so with this version of god.

    Let's say there's a creator who isn't judgmental. What would be the purpose for such a god to create humans? Some people will have hellish lives and other people's lives will range from difficult to wonderful. Some will live only five minutes. Why? Just for the amusement of the creator?
     
  3. appleguy123 macrumors 603

    appleguy123

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    #3
    Why end at humans? What did the gazelle do to deserve to suffer in horrible pain for the last moments of its life at the hands of a cheetah? Every minute thousands of animals(both human and others) are starving, suffering, and dying. Every bit of life must destroy other life to stay alive. Doesn't sound very loving to me.
     
  4. _Matt macrumors 6502

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    #4
    I think the fact that we give God human characteristics is pretty frightening in itself. If he does exist, and he is as powerful as we say, then why do we persist with the complex that we can ever fully understand him?
     
  5. Simgar988 macrumors 65816

    Simgar988

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    #5
    Maybe it is just cycle and God is just a man, a scientist, waiting for the next
    one to become all knowing and take his place. The
    Perfect scientist would be observant and indefferent of what happens, thus eliminating the good/bad argument.
     
  6. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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  7. kalsta macrumors 68000

    kalsta

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    #7
    If God exists, there's no getting around the fact that he allows people to suffer. You don't have to resort to 'horrible diseases' and 'natural catastrophes' to demonstrate that… Gentlemen, you're only alive today because someone made a huge sacrifice for you and endured agonising pain and suffering that you might have life. Do you know who I'm talking about? That's right… Your mom.

    If God does exist, maybe he's telling us something right from the moment we're born, naked, covered in blood and mess and screaming from the shock of it all… If life has any purpose or meaning at all, it's obviously not meant to be easy. It begins in pain, and it often ends in pain… and then there's usually a fair bit of pain in between.

    You'd think that the people who suffer more pain, more hardship, more set-backs in life, would be the more bitter and resentful, right? Look around you. It's often not the case. There are many very unhappy people who have had most things handed to them on a silver platter. And there are just as many people who have suffered much in their life, and are the most beautiful and joyful people.

    WiiDSmoker, let's say you discovered that God does exist and did in fact create the world, allowing it to fall into its present state of suffering. Would you thank him for giving you life? Would you thank him for allowing you to enjoy all that this planet has to offer, whether it be the friends you have fun with, the food you love to eat, the outdoor activities you enjoy? Or would you only shake your fist at him (as you have done in your post) for allowing people to suffer pain?
     
  8. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #8
    What do you think he would telling us?
     
  9. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #9
    Are you buzzed again and getting lost in deep thought/speculation? Put the bong you made out of your game console down for a minute and sleep it off. ;)
     
  10. kalsta macrumors 68000

    kalsta

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    #10
    There's a topic sentence in there somewhere. Look for it. ;)
     
  11. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #11
    That we were created to suffer? But we should be thankful for the opportunity? Even if our mother strangled us right after birth?
     
  12. kalsta macrumors 68000

    kalsta

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    #12
    I never said suffering was the point of life, but it's certainly part of the process, regardless of what you believe.

    Why don't you answer that question. Are you thankful for life or not?
     
  13. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #13
    Why don't you answer the question? What do you think the point of life is?
     
  14. Mousse, May 18, 2011
    Last edited: May 18, 2011

    Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #14
    God has some really good spin doctors working for him.:)

    This reply only applies to Christians and Jews, since others don't consider Scripture worth the paper it's written on. Read Job 38-42. Here's the short version: You don't have God's power and you can't understand God's reason. So...your arms too short to box with God.
    Not answer I was looking for, but then who can understand the way of God? First he makes beautiful girls, then he turn them into wives.:p:D
     
  15. floyde, May 18, 2011
    Last edited: May 18, 2011

    floyde macrumors 6502a

    floyde

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    #15
    Not if you don't exist ;). This is just more evidence to support the notion that ancient Hebrews really sucked at writing consistent plot lines.

    Come on now mscriv, I don't think that WiiDSmoker's predilection for inhalable substances has any bearing on the validity of his arguments.
     
  16. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #16
    Why am I not surprised? ;)
     
  17. floyde macrumors 6502a

    floyde

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    #17
    lol, I don't share his hobby, I just don't think that it invalidates what he wrote.
     
  18. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #18
    Again, why am I not surprised? ;)

    I was just poking a little fun at his/her username and the stereotype of getting blazed and pondering the mysteries of life. :)

    And....

    I had the good fortune of you coming along my friend, which provided a chance for me to poke a little fun at you too. ;) :D
     
  19. Designer Dale macrumors 68040

    Designer Dale

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  20. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #20
    What a ridiculous question. How can we know whether this is better than the alternative. If you never exist, you neither lose nor gain anything. If you do exist, the net result is the same. Perhaps there is a collective consciousness that allows those who never or briefly exist to share in the experience the we perceive to be personal and private, that makes no less sense than a benevolent, sadistic or indifferent superbeing to which we owe gratitude, resentment or apathy.

    Why should we be thankful for something which we have no idea of what its real value might be?
     
  21. Surely Guest

    Surely

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    #21
    Good one.

    The Emperor from Star Wars was pretty evil too. My wife says that the cheerleader coach from Glee is pretty mean too.


    /also choosing to only answer the thread title question
     
  22. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #22
    The most wicked character ever?

    Mother-in-laws.
     
  23. kalsta, May 18, 2011
    Last edited: May 18, 2011

    kalsta macrumors 68000

    kalsta

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    #23
    Way to overcomplicate a simple question. You must be smarter than I am.

    Edit: Perhaps 'thankful' was the wrong choice of words, since you don't believe there is anyone to direct gratitude towards. I could have asked, are you glad you're alive? Or you can refer back to my first comment where I prefaced the question with the presumption of God's existence.
     
  24. Pink∆Floyd macrumors 68020

    Pink∆Floyd

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    #24
    I thought it was Iago in Shakespeare's Othello...
     
  25. floyde macrumors 6502a

    floyde

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    #25
    lol I see, I guess I missed your winking smiley. You can type bazzinga next time to prevent confusion :p
     

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