The next big Supreme Court case involves Lexmark?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by JayMysterio, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #1
    http://gizmodo.com/supreme-court-printer-cartridge-case-could-be-the-citiz-1793643311

    http://fortune.com/2017/03/21/supreme-court-lexmark-printers/

    Having a very business friendly jurist like Grouch takes on new meaning.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/01/supreme-court-very-business-friendly-data-show.html
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    This is dumb, once I buy the product I should be able to fill it with whale feces if I want to, or pay someone else to.
     
  3. JayMysterio thread starter macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #3
    A followup...

    http://gizmodo.com/fans-of-cheap-drugs-and-printer-ink-just-won-big-in-the-1795662756

     
  4. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #4
    While I agree with you. May I point to you Wickard v. Filburn.

    ETA It appears that SCOTUS got this one correct.
     
  5. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #5
    The downsides of this ruling is for poor countries that rely on pharmaceutical drug donations. Most "low-cost" drugs distributed by non-profits in poor countries come with a stipulation that the buyer won't turn around and sell it in the US. Now that stipulation is unenforceable. This may mean the end of pharmaceutical companies selling low-cost drugs at a loss to Africa, for example, because they can't prevent those drugs being sold back into the US to undercut the prices charged in the US.

    While I realize its not exactly a popular position to take that pharmaceutical companies need more reasons to charge high prices in the US; this really has no impact on US prices so that aspect of it is irrelevant, but it might have an impact on charitable drug donations by pharmaceutical companies.
     
  6. Carnegie macrumors 6502

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    #6
    That's a consequence worth considering. In theory this could lead to a reduction in the extent to which U.S. pharmaceutical customers effectively subsidize pharmaceutical sales in other parts of the world. However, I'd make a couple of points:

    (1) Potential infringement issues aren't the only thing limiting the (re)importation of various pharmaceuticals. There can also be regulatory roadblocks put or kept in place by the FDA.

    (2) The kind of stipulations which you refer to can still be enforced through normal contract law. In some cases trying to enforce contractual commitments (rather than pursuing infringement actions) might not be practical, in others cases it might be. A patent holder could also condition the continued supply of various pharmaceuticals on (past) compliance with such stipulations.
     
  7. flyinmac macrumors 68040

    flyinmac

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    #7
    There is also the issue of illegal possession, transport, and distribution of a controlled substance.

    Prescription medications cannot legally be possessed or transported by any individual that isn't named on the medications label.

    Distribution or sale of controlled substances / prescriptions without the appropriate license and distribution methods are illegal.

    If I wanted to obtain my $800 per month prescription for less money, and obtained it through unauthorized channels, it would be an illegal transaction in the United States.
     
  8. Zenithal macrumors 601

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    #8
    This is why I like using Brother laser printers and advocate them to others. They're easy to use, simple as hell to repair and the OEM parts are very cheap. They last for years and they have non of this trivial ******** that makes refilling hard. Real simple stuff.
     
  9. JayMysterio thread starter macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #9
    They also make great 'over' sized printers, which are wonderful for artists.
     
  10. Zenithal macrumors 601

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    #10
    As does HP. The Pro stuff by HP is great, actually, according to what I've read. It's the prosumer and consumer line that's garbage. Inkjets that can be modded to use continuous flow systems are great, though.
     
  11. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #11
    This.

    I've used a ton of printers in professional and personal life (HP Deskjet, HP Laserjet, Canon, those directly from Dell and IBM, and even unknowns like Apollo), and I have not been any more satisfied than with the Brother HL-3180CDW sitting next to my Mac. Easiest to set up, cheapest to maintain, and less than 1/4th the cost of other color laser printers out on the market.

    It's been almost 2 years and I haven't had to refill any toner, let alone swap it out, despite moderate to heavy use. After seeing the prices for ink skyrocket over the past 8 - 9 years, I went laser printer and won't look back.

    BL.
     
  12. JayMysterio thread starter macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #12
    I haven't had much luck with HP printers. Not as bad as Canon, but I've had a couple of HP printers just stop working. I went to Brother printers because so many recommended them for regular printing. I was happily surprised to find they make affordable printers that print 11 X 17.
     
  13. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #13
    Printing......LOL. Welcome to the early turn of this century. I find little to near no need to print anything any longer.
     
  14. Zenithal macrumors 601

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    #14
    Some of us work in fields where paper documentation is required. And in some cases, if I want a paper version of one of my ebooks, I can walk away for 4-7 minutes and have a 300+ page front and back print version.
     
  15. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #15
    what field?

    in general though, no. printing is lol funny anymore.
     
  16. JayMysterio thread starter macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #16
    Exactly. The illustration field hasn't gone completely digital. Also if you work in illustration or comics good luck getting someone who paid $50 or more for a commission to take a digital copy. For that kind of money they want a physical print. You could go to a printer, but there home printers that can do the job well enough if you aren't mass producing. Also the old days of having to pay for comic book paper are over as those printers can print on bristol board with your ruled boarder and own company logo.
     
  17. Zenithal macrumors 601

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    #17
    Some examples are law, real estate, general banking, private equity, investment and or investment services (think a major broker like ETrade or one that delves in indexes), general financial services, funeral houses, publicly traded companies still send in paperwork even if their filings are made public through their investor relations page(s), medicine, county offices, local government, county assessor's parcel office, etc. The list is endless.

    Even companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple, et al. do hard copies of nearly everything, both onsite and offsite. Digital is great, but it's far too easy to corrupt the data. Big four companies work almost exclusively in paper.
    --- Post Merged, May 30, 2017 ---
    And if you're like me, you can print your own paper targets. If I need a big one, I just rent a large format printer and away I go. Fun times.
     
  18. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #18
    The military still requires a lot of manuals and documents to be in printed form. The USAF and DoD specifically ask for that, and that is even after starting the JCALS project to digitize all of their manuals and forms.

    Invoices are still mainly printed.

    Recall what you get every time you deposit or withdraw money from an ATM.

    Recall all of the paperwork you sign when you purchase a car.

    Plenty of fields still print, and to be honest, you want that paper trail, especially in case something goes wrong.

    BL.
     
  19. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #19
    Many of the above don't "require" printed docs though. In fact many areas of law do not accept printed documents. Many states, especially in Bankruptcy Court, moved to e-filing completely. Even in Family Law and Estate Planning.

    In the end, my point is there's no need. Most documents that are printed are scanned and stored electronically, especially in the area of property management. None of what I do is printed, it's signed on a signature pad, stored as a secured .pdf and transmitted to the institutions and clients.
     
  20. Zenithal macrumors 601

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    #20
    How nice of you to input your opinion. Disregarded, of course.
     
  21. JayMysterio thread starter macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #21
    I believe the point trying to be made is that just because you no longer have a need for printing physical copies, it in fact doesn't negate that others in the world still do. For you, printing is dead. For others it's still a viable & necessary part of day to day operations.
     
  22. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #22
    don't tell me you don't approve of opinions that might disagree. we're already dealing with enough stifling of the freedom of speech in this country.
     
  23. flyinmac, May 31, 2017
    Last edited: May 31, 2017

    flyinmac macrumors 68040

    flyinmac

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    #23
    One thing about newer HP InkJets is that to curb refill sales and home refilling, HP implemented a digital timer / clock into many of their inkjet cartridges.

    This means that you could buy a brand new cartridge. And if you don't use it by a certain date, it will fail to work.

    Likewise, if you don't use up all the ink in that cartridge by it's programmed expiration date, it will simply stop working.

    The idea was to stop companies from refilling cartridges by just having the cartridges expire.

    I had one of those printers. I got fed up with it. Because I didn't use the ink fast enough, I was always having to throw out cartridges that were still mostly full. And haven't used HP InkJets since.

    I have an Epson InkJet now. But it's my secondary printer. Only for when color is needed.

    Personally, I'm still using my old HP LaserJet 5p as my primary printer. Years ago, I added a PostScript module to it, and added onboard memory modules (SIMMs or DIMMs - can't remember what I stuck in there).

    I did that to enable PostScript printing to it from my old Commodore 64 (which I no longer have).

    The printer works great still. And as long as I can get toner for it, I'll keep using that old workhorse (I even found a spare which has only printed 1000 pages according to its log).

    It's a parallel printer with an AppleTalk serial connection as well.

    I used to use a Parallel to USB connection to plug it into my Mac. But several years ago, I got a US Robotics USB to Ethernet adapter.

    So now it's a Parallel to USB to Ethernet lol. And that enables me to easily use it with the Mac and 4 PC's on that network.

    The PC's have native support for it still. And GIMP provides OS X drivers for it.

    Apple started trying to abandon it a while back. But with GIMP drivers I can get around that.

    And, since I have the Postscript module installed still, I can always get around lack of drivers by using Postscript printing if I need to. Which sometimes I do. But, even with the onboard memory, Postscript printing isn't preferred (unless I need the highest print quality possible) due to Postscript printing being aggravatingly slow. That old Postscript processor can take up to 5 to 20 minutes to process and print a page (compared to a couple seconds if I just print to it normally from a PC or Mac).

    As for the thing about Family Law and Printing.... I've spent quite a lot of time handling family law. And I haven't seen anyway to avoid paper, other than when sending drafts between an attorney and a client. Copies are still submitted to the court on paper. Though the local court will allow a 4:59 pm submission electrically (which is actually a fax machine that prints it out). But, you have to get permission first, otherwise it's paper submission only.

    The law requires that a party send a "true and actual" copy of all submitted paperwork to the other party by either fax machine or U.S. Postal service. An email is not considered a legally sent and received copy.

    A certificate of service (written and hand signed) oath that a copy has been given to your opponent is required to be provided to the court and your opponent. Otherwise the court will reject your attempt to file paperwork.

    The law does require that all submissions be on a particular kind of paper. That is to make sure that the documents do not degrade over time. However, the court does not enforce that standard. And therefore, everyone I know (including myself) ignores that requirement. I submit paperwork on the cheapest copier paper I can find (as long as it isn't cheap looking paper).

    So, there are ways to reduce paper usage. But, in Family Law, so far I haven't seen a way to eliminate paper. Everything still requires a physical hand signed line somewhere. Sometimes both the client and the attorney will have to sign it. Sometimes just one or the other.

    The certificate of service always requires a signature.

    Some papers can be filed by the attorney without the clients signature. But, then the attorney must sign an affidavit that the client has read and approved the document, and certify that a separate filing (affidavit) will be filed very soon with the clients signature.

    So, in actuality, that step uses more paper.

    Granted, some areas of law do allow digital signatures. So paperless options exist. For example, digital documents and digital signatures are very common in real estate. A digital signature is attached while the client is logged in and authenticated by a 3rd Party authentication service.

    In real estate, it is possible (though less frequently done) to completely eliminate the use of physical paper and hand written signatures. But I have handled legal real estate transactions both ways. Digital is far more cumbersome though. But, digital does work great when there is a time constraint. For example, an opposing party has agreed to a concession, but a client must agree to another term to get that concession, and the offer is only good if agreed upon absolutely right now. In those cases, I've used digital signatures because a client and attorney cannot always suddenly be in the same location immediately. So the attorney can tell the client to go to a specific website, log in, read the proposal and I need your counter offer ideas or a digital signature approving the current proposal with 5 minutes.

    Done it a lot.

    In conventional and non contentious real estate, relaxed bringing a person into the office to sign documents is far less cumbersome though.

    But, in the event that real estate legal matters escalate to actual court litigation, physical paperwork comes back into the picture once you involve the court and the judge.
     
  24. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #24
    Mmmmm...no. I work in Family Law and Estate Planning. While you can file documents electronically, most documents still have to be printed first and still signed (and occasionally notarized) manually.

    Bankruptcy's a different story. We got out of that practice years ago. Just not worth it.
     
  25. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #25
    The only thing I sometimes print is pictures and not that often. The last time I needed to refill the ink for $10 more than the refills cost I just got a new printer nicer than the one I needed ink for. True story.
     

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