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MYZ

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 29, 2021
114
73
Canada
It has much better hand feel, though I'm not sure how the design team pulled it off, to make a long post short.

By the spec sheet it definitely should feel heavier since it's 1.83 kg vs 1.6 kg for the 14.

The more tapered edges as opposed to the bulky flat edge of the newer models probably contribute.

Any thoughts?


Background:

I bought a MacBook Pro 14, base model, and used it for a while but didn't like the slow screen response time, eye strain, and the black keyboard design (which gets too hot under the sun) so I returned it. I then got a used MacBook Pro 15 2019.

Which I am surprisingly enjoying more.
Though of course some aspects are noticeably worse (battery life, noise, camera, etc.) which is to be expected.
 

ScholarsInk

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2010
365
424
Can you find more people like you who actively want the 2016-2019 model? I would feel guilty selling mine to someone who doesn't know better; but wouldn't feel guilty selling it to someone who actually wanted one.
 

IJBrekke

macrumors 6502a
Oct 24, 2009
660
770
Long Beach, CA
I feel like a broken record having posted a few other times on this, but: The 2016-19 15” MBP is a Goldilocks size for larger-screened laptops. Everyone asking for a 15” Air is basically asking for this size and shape. If you could update it to an M-based processor and fix the keyboard you would be good to go. It even has 4 usb-c ports - once you build up the needed cables and accessories, it’s very flexible and convenient.

The 16” models crossed a threshold in size and weight that lost the Goldilocks feel. They are now large enough to discourage bringing along. The 14” is great, but feels more like an XL 13” because of the scaling it uses.

Still enjoying my 2017 for similar reasons you like it.
 

matejaem

macrumors newbie
May 30, 2022
3
4
Can you find more people like you who actively want the 2016-2019 model? I would feel guilty selling mine to someone who doesn't know better; but wouldn't feel guilty selling it to someone who actually wanted one.
Trust me, there are still people who prefer them for the form factor, myself included. Yes the keyboard is a disaster and those display bezels look dated now in 2022, but the rest of the laptop actually looks more futuristic & sleek than the current M1 Pro/Max models that borrowed their design from the unibody era.
 

ScholarsInk

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2010
365
424
Trust me, there are still people who prefer them for the form factor, myself included. Yes the keyboard is a disaster and those display bezels look dated now in 2022, but the rest of the laptop actually looks more futuristic & sleek than the current M1 Pro/Max models that borrowed their design from the unibody era.

Where does one find them? I’d be happy to sell to someone who actually wants the thing.
 

ScholarsInk

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2010
365
424
Aren't those the butterfly key Macs that break every often.
Which is precisely why I don’t want to sell mine and inflict that on some person who doesn’t know better.

But people who actively like those models should be just fine.
 

atirox

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2021
4
0
Can you find more people like you who actively want the 2016-2019 model? I would feel guilty selling mine to someone who doesn't know better; but wouldn't feel guilty selling it to someone who actually wanted one.
Which is precisely why I don’t want to sell mine and inflict that on some person who doesn’t know better.

But people who actively like those models should be just fine.

I'm currently in school working towards a degree in IT, and for much of the software I use, it has to be Intel for it to be usable, so I was looking for one of these machines. (As an aside, I found a late 2019 model with the 16" screen, so I think I missed the butterfly keyboard stage...) Sadly, until Microsoft ports Windows 11 and Windows Server to ARM and actually issue licenses to the general public instead of OEMs only, I'm tied to x86.

As far as MacBooks goes, 2015 and older unfortunately is getting to be too old for what I'm trying to do, and the M series is off the table due to needing to run Windows Server at a decent speed. I'd considered going with something from Dell, HP, Lenovo or the like, but then I'm missing out on features that Windows 11 still doesn't have that have made school easier and have required less third party software.

So, back to the butterfly keyboards and egg cooking Intel chips I go!
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,258
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
I'm currently in school working towards a degree in IT, and for much of the software I use, it has to be Intel for it to be usable, so I was looking for one of these machines. (As an aside, I found a late 2019 model with the 16" screen, so I think I missed the butterfly keyboard stage...) Sadly, until Microsoft ports Windows 11 and Windows Server to ARM and actually issue licenses to the general public instead of OEMs only, I'm tied to x86.

As far as MacBooks goes, 2015 and older unfortunately is getting to be too old for what I'm trying to do, and the M series is off the table due to needing to run Windows Server at a decent speed. I'd considered going with something from Dell, HP, Lenovo or the like, but then I'm missing out on features that Windows 11 still doesn't have that have made school easier and have required less third party software.

So, back to the butterfly keyboards and egg cooking Intel chips I go!
You can use Rosetta 2 for that?
 

atirox

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2021
4
0
You can use Rosetta 2 for that?
In theory yes… from the reading I’ve done, there’s still some optimization on Microsoft’s side to be done. The other area I’m not 100% sure on is how Microsoft Hyper-V runs in Windows on ARM inside a VM.

I suppose I could use QEMU or something like it to emulate x86… but I’d like something a little more certain it’s going to work, especially if I’m dropping upwards of $2500 CAD on one of those MacBook Pros.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,258
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
In theory yes… from the reading I’ve done, there’s still some optimization on Microsoft’s side to be done. The other area I’m not 100% sure on is how Microsoft Hyper-V runs in Windows on ARM inside a VM.

I suppose I could use QEMU or something like it to emulate x86… but I’d like something a little more certain it’s going to work, especially if I’m dropping upwards of $2500 CAD on one of those MacBook Pros.
Doesn't MS state Hyper-C is enabled in their ARM Win11?
 

mouthster

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2005
298
267
The black keyboard backing is new on the 2021 models. Combined with the more matte black keys the whole assembly gets too hot to touch under the sun.

Lol, I have a 2019 15" for work - the keyboard gets hot as hell without any help from the sun.
 
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atirox

macrumors newbie
Aug 28, 2021
4
0
Doesn't MS state Hyper-C is enabled in their ARM Win11?
I would love to find a source for that. I haven’t been able to find anyone who has attempted my use case for school, and I didn’t want to be the test dummy…

In an ideal world, Microsoft would hurry up and stop signing deals with Qualcomm so that we could license Windows on ARM. I suspect they’re making boat loads of money off that deal though…

Perhaps once I’m done school, and I don’t need to be able to boot into a native windows environment, I’ll test out windows server 2019 or 2022 inside Hyper-V running on Windows on ARM, running inside a virtual machine on an M1 laptop.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,258
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
I would love to find a source for that. I haven’t been able to find anyone who has attempted my use case for school, and I didn’t want to be the test dummy…

In an ideal world, Microsoft would hurry up and stop signing deals with Qualcomm so that we could license Windows on ARM. I suspect they’re making boat loads of money off that deal though…

Perhaps once I’m done school, and I don’t need to be able to boot into a native windows environment, I’ll test out windows server 2019 or 2022 inside Hyper-V running on Windows on ARM, running inside a virtual machine on an M1 laptop.
They might be making money on the short term, but long term? Loosing the market.
 

zackkmac

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2008
880
129
Denver
I can't speak for the last gen 15" as I avoided them due to the keyboard/port issues - but between the 2015 15" I gifted to my roommate, the 2019 16" I had and the M1 14" I just sold, I would always pick the 14" hands down. The size was perfect, it felt light enough and was easiest for me to handle due to the smaller overall size. I also prefer the new shape over the older; that and the new keyboard felt like (is?) a throwback to the original titanium PowerBook G4.

I'd still have it now if I didn't need a Windows 11 laptop full time. Instead, I replaced it with an ASUS ROG Flow X13 and honestly it feels just as nice and portable as the M1 did. Battery life is decent but suffers if using the 3050 Ti lol but overall a fine replacement to the M1 experience.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,258
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
I can't speak for the last gen 15" as I avoided them due to the keyboard/port issues - but between the 2015 15" I gifted to my roommate, the 2019 16" I had and the M1 14" I just sold, I would always pick the 14" hands down. The size was perfect, it felt light enough and was easiest for me to handle due to the smaller overall size. I also prefer the new shape over the older; that and the new keyboard felt like (is?) a throwback to the original titanium PowerBook G4.

I'd still have it now if I didn't need a Windows 11 laptop full time. Instead, I replaced it with an ASUS ROG Flow X13 and honestly it feels just as nice and portable as the M1 did. Battery life is decent but suffers if using the 3050 Ti lol but overall a fine replacement to the M1 experience.
Work required a Win11 laptop?
 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,497
OP -- I've been thinking a lot about this. At first I disliked the new MBP design because it looked boxy in pictures. When I got it in my hands though, I found it so pleasant to hold and carry around due to the edges being curvy instead of abrupt like on the old model. The extra rigidity and weight makes it feel less flimsy as well.

When I saw and held these things in person for the first time, I had a familiar feeling that I finally figured out had to do with my Speak & Spell back in the 80s. It was a plastic educational toy for kids, but it was thick, boxy, and sturdy. No flex in the case, no sharp edges on the design, and one of the few toys I had as a kid that I never managed to damage in any way, even though I took it everywhere with me for at least 2 years.

The newest MacBook design reminds me of my beloved Speak & Spell. Much more thin and compact than that device, and obviously made out of much more premium materials, but I know I can drag it around everywhere with me and it will go the distance. The fact that there's basically a desktop computer packed inside of it is nothing short of mind blowing.
 

exoticSpice

Suspended
Jan 9, 2022
1,242
1,951
It has much better hand feel, though I'm not sure how the design team pulled it off, to make a long post short.

By the spec sheet it definitely should feel heavier since it's 1.83 kg vs 1.6 kg for the 14.

The more tapered edges as opposed to the bulky flat edge of the newer models probably contribute.

Any thoughts?


Background:

I bought a MacBook Pro 14, base model, and used it for a while but didn't like the slow screen response time, eye strain, and the black keyboard design (which gets too hot under the sun) so I returned it. I then got a used MacBook Pro 15 2019.

Which I am surprisingly enjoying more.
Though of course some aspects are noticeably worse (battery life, noise, camera, etc.) which is to be expected.
For me the 15" MBP gets hot because of the Intel chip under load. I can't even use it nor type on it on my lap. The 2019 15" gets VERY hot above the touch bar and in the middle area of the keyboard. Plus the noise is BAD and annoying.
 

cappo3

macrumors regular
Dec 3, 2014
205
66
It is such a shame that the older design had to have the keyboard issues. I really like the design and would have bought one of the later Intel MBPs to replace my Late 2013 13", but had to scrap that plan.
My brother just got a new maxed-out 14" and it feels bulky and heavy even against my 9-year-old machine. I think I'll keep this one a while longer, maybe I can really get this to last 10 years!
 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,497
It is such a shame that the older design had to have the keyboard issues. I really like the design and would have bought one of the later Intel MBPs to replace my Late 2013 13", but had to scrap that plan.
My brother just got a new maxed-out 14" and it feels bulky and heavy even against my 9-year-old machine. I think I'll keep this one a while longer, maybe I can really get this to last 10 years!
I really feel like the design team said, "Let's just concede that heat and keyboard reliability are issues and give up on this design." I didn't like the design in the marketing shots, but in real world use, I love it.

One thing I try to remember is that while these are definitely heavier than last gen, they are really not that much thicker. The thinness of the last gen MacBook Pros was kind of an optical illusion, just like the "wedge" shape of all of the MacBook Air models up until this year. They use the sides of those notebooks to show your eye a certain profile, but what your eye will ignore is all the stuff above and below that side wall of the machine.

With the new MacBook Pro and Air design, those optical illusions are gone, and you can see exactly how thick the machine is with a quick glance. I honestly think it's a change for the better. My M1 MacBook Air and Intel 15" MacBook Pro both had flex in the lid even just from me gripping them to take them out of my laptop bag.
 

ScholarsInk

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2010
365
424
It is such a shame that the older design had to have the keyboard issues. I really like the design and would have bought one of the later Intel MBPs to replace my Late 2013 13", but had to scrap that plan.
My brother just got a new maxed-out 14" and it feels bulky and heavy even against my 9-year-old machine. I think I'll keep this one a while longer, maybe I can really get this to last 10 years!

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding but is there a difference, case design wise, between the 2020/2022 13” Touch Bar Pro and its 2016- Intel equivalent?
 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,497
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding but is there a difference, case design wise, between the 2020/2022 13” Touch Bar Pro and its 2016- Intel equivalent?
I believe the notebook as a whole is slightly thicker due to the re-addition of the GOOD keyboard.
 
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