The Positive side of Bush winning

atszyman

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Sep 16, 2003
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There are definitely a lot of us on this board who are extremely disappointed in the results of yesterday's election. Many of us are angry/frightened/sad at what the prospects of the next four years will bring. I thought I might try to start a thread that may help to alleviate some of the fears by trying to list the positives of what the next four years might bring.

1. Iraq : This administration has a lot riding on Iraq especially when you realize that there won't be an incumbent to run in 2008 unless Cheney steps down as VP (which I don't see happening). Iraq will have to be a resounding success or there will have an extremely hard time in '08. Kerry had the option to always blame it on his predecessor. The current administration doesn't have that option.

2. Economy : Both sides want the economy to improve and we have been growing albeit slowly. However, a slow sustained growth is probably better in the long run if we can keep it going.

3. Smaller government : This is going to be a must for the current administration. If they truly want more tax cuts there is no way the Federal Govt. will be able to spend like does now and come anywhere close to reducing the deficits.

Let's try to keep this one positive so that some of us might be able to peacefully come to terms with the prospect of another four years of Bush.
 

kuyu

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2003
694
0
Louisville
Good thread!

1) Tax Cuts, smaller government: These two shouldn't be too hard with the new Senate and the conservative Democrats in 3-4 seats. Rumor is that Bush's cabinet is leaning towards www.fairtax.org which would dissolve the IRS.

2) Economy: Actually, it's growing too fast. That's why the Fed keeps raising rates by 25 basis points. The timing of the pending tax cuts needs to be perfect to keep things in check.

3) Markets: Expect to see HUGE gains in the market over the next two years. With the economy back, spending up, and productivity at an all time high corporate earnings will soar. Look for personal tech, transportation, retail, and stay away from google. Also, fuel markets will likely top out in early december, and steady out around $40 - $42 /barrel.

4) Bi-Partisanship: Hopefully Bush will do what's best for America, and dump Ashcroft and Rumsfeld. He should appoint a strong Democrat to Atty Gen. Bush could do a lot to end the hateful partisanship by stepping across party lines for his cabinet.
 

atszyman

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Original poster
Sep 16, 2003
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kuyu said:
4) Bi-Partisanship: Hopefully Bush will do what's best for America, and dump Ashcroft and Rumsfeld. He should appoint a strong Democrat to Atty Gen. Bush could do a lot to end the hateful partisanship by stepping across party lines for his cabinet.
That would do wonders for helping a lot of us cope.
 

makisushi

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2004
301
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Northern VA
I am absolutely in favor of so called "smaller government"

I want privatised Social Security, I want to be able to decide how I want to invest it. If i make poor choices, well then its my own fault.

I love Medical savings plans, and I am in the process of switching my company over to it.
 

QCassidy352

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2003
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Republicans don't believe in smaller government. They want you to believe that they do, but they don't. The federal government shrunk under Clinton and has grown under Bush. Republicans believe in less regulation of business and more regulation of your personal life. Democrats the reverse.

Bush has no interest in bi-partisanship. He told that lie last time, and some people bought it. But the last 4 years have shown bush to be bull headed, stubborn, and self righteous. He has no interest in compromising with anyone - not the 49% of the american people that voted against him, not foreign nations, not democrats.

Your thread is a nice idea, but there just aren't any upsides that I can see. The economy has gotten worse in the last 4 years. The country is at greater, not less, risk of attack thanks to Bush policies. Unemployment is up, the budget deficit is at record levels. And now, we're going to have decades of the Bush Court. I'm not going to pretend that there's a silver lining when there are nothing but black thunder clouds.
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
well at least bush will now have to clean up his own iraq mess. kerry was in a no-win situation there. the adage of " you break it, you buy it" has never been truer.

finally the bush administration won't be able to blame everything that's going wrong on the previous administration because they are the previous administration.
 

atszyman

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Original poster
Sep 16, 2003
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The Dallas 'burbs
QCassidy352 said:
Republicans don't believe in smaller government. They want you to believe that they do, but they don't. The federal government shrunk under Clinton and has grown under Bush. Republicans believe in less regulation of business and more regulation of your personal life. Democrats the reverse.
I never said that it would be smaller govt. by choice. This would be smaller govt. by necessity.

I realize that not everyone is going to agree on the "good" things that the next 4 years of Bush could lead to. But I need to believe that there will be some good. Hopefully this list will give some people a littel comfort.
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
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Chicago, IL
On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.
 

zelmo

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2004
5,490
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Mac since 7.5
Nice idea for a thread. There are a lot of folks who are really upset by the election results, and not just because Bush is in for another four years. I hope we can keep this one thread more upbeat - Lord knows there are already plenty of Bush bashing threads available for folks to tirade in.
 

QCassidy352

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Mar 20, 2003
10,572
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atszyman said:
I never said that it would be smaller govt. by choice. This would be smaller govt. by necessity.
How do you figure? What have you seen from this administration thus far that would lead you to believe that?
 

makisushi

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2004
301
0
Northern VA
SiliconAddict said:
On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.
even in a positive thread, there is bashing.
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
3,647
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Colly-fornia
SiliconAddict said:
On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.
Calling your opposition stupid isn't the way to win friends or get things done. At least frame the argument better.
 

redAPPLE

macrumors 68030
May 7, 2002
2,614
2
2 Much Infinite Loops
want something positive?

how about this... i love watching michael moore bushomentaries... :cool:

---

"its been a bad day.
Please dont take a picture
Its been a bad day. " - rem
 

Mr_Ed

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2004
443
8
North and east of Mickeyland
SiliconAddict said:
On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.
Everyone acknowledges there is still the possibility of terrorist acts against the United States. Holding an "I told you so" sign when it happens does not exactly show a great deal of insight on your part, and as mactastic pointed out, calling your opposition "stupid" won't help us get anything done.
 

kuyu

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2003
694
0
Louisville
SiliconAddict said:
On the plus side we at least know who are the more gullible people in America are. I can at least throw out the figure:

There are at minimum 58,663,825 really stupid and really gullible people in the US that base their decisions on fear rather then fact. I'll be holding an I told you so when the inevitable terrorist attack happens again. Those who think it can be stopped by throwing money, resources, and Bush at the problem again fall into the 58,663,825 group. See you in 4 years assuming America isn't a smoking hole by then.
We're not all stupid. I'm getting sick of this. I voted on facts. I drew up a list of issues, and Bush had more checks than Kerry. Terrorism was a tie in my list. They're presidents, not force fields.

Don't you see what your elitist, partisan comments are doing to this country? It's fine to disagree, in fact, disagreement is encouraged. But, mud-slinging and deragotory comments about anyone with a different opinion than you is counter productive. I assure you, the best way to move America forward does NOT involve a civil war.

The Republican's cleaned up last night. Period. What's best now is to work towards comprimise and the best interest of the aggregate. This is our country too. I would hope that people realize that this rabid hate for your fellow countrymen is doomed to hurt whichever party makes it their core mantra, as evidenced last night.
:)
 

atszyman

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Original poster
Sep 16, 2003
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The Dallas 'burbs
QCassidy352 said:
How do you figure? What have you seen from this administration thus far that would lead you to believe that?
If they are serious about cutting the deficit they will either have to raise taxes or cut government. They seem to loathe the former option and if they expect to have any chance in '08 they need to reduce the deficits. I believe that there are many people who are willing to forgive deficits in wartime but if we're not out of Iraq and/or are still running the huge deficits in '08 the GOP is going to have a really hard run at the White House.

The object of this thread was to give myself and the rest of thee angry Democrats something positive to focus on rather than the negatives that we have focused on for the last year.

Please I urge you all to keep the party bashing to the many other threads that have already done a fine job of hammering the negative home. I do realize that I am not the perfect person to be pleading since I keep replying QCassidy352.

I voted for Kerry, I really do dislike Bush but focusing on the negative was just bringing me down too much today. I was hoping we could keep one positive thread going to try to alleviate some fears and give those of us unhappy with the results something to hope for. Even if what we are hoping for is unlikely we can still have hope.
 

mypantsaretight

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2004
16
0
Additional positive:

South America trends toward the people.

Bush has unintentionally fed a wave of left-leaning patriotic fevor in South America. This is due in part to his support of the heavy handed austerity measures of the IMF and World Bank, his support of NAFTA, his support for the now-renamed School of the Americas and the terrorists trained at Fort Benning, and also in part to the historic support of the United States for the genocidal despots of the Reagan era.

Left-leaning politicians in Venezula, Brazil, Argentina, Chile and most recently Uruguay have swept in to power on a wave of public support. Each election further debunks the idea that all democracies must be unregulated bastions of capitalism.

With every shift of the U.S. to the right, South America shifts toward the people. This is one positive outcome of the election.
 

thatwendigo

macrumors 6502a
Nov 17, 2003
992
0
Sum, Ergo Sum.
kuyu said:
Don't you see what your elitist, partisan comments are doing to this country? It's fine to disagree, in fact, disagreement is encouraged. But, mud-slinging and deragotory comments about anyone with a different opinion than you is counter productive. I assure you, the best way to move America forward does NOT involve a civil war.
Does it involve repeated accusation by the Republican party that anyone who didn't back Bush's illegal and unjustified wars wasn't, and still isn't, a real patriot? Does it involve the fact that they've created and nurtured a culture where 'liberal' is basically a curse word? Does it involve the sheer, ballsy, outright lies that they've told since day one?

If not, then it should.

What's best now is to work towards comprimise and the best interest of the aggregate.
I'm sure that the Republicans in Congress will be happy to compromise, rather than taking us all over the table as they have been for the last four years. Obviously, this repeat term with even more legislative support heralds nothing but puppies and flowers all around, while one of the first actions taken on the eve of its arrival is the disenfranchisement of a large portion of the population.

After all, civil liberties aren't for homos. Them's for real people.

This is our country too. I would hope that people realize that this rabid hate for your fellow countrymen is doomed to hurt whichever party makes it their core mantra, as evidenced last night.
It hasn't hurt the Republicans yet, so here's my prediction:

The Democrats will eventually have a Karl Rove. Some day, they'll learn to fight like their opponents, and we might one day return to some semblance of balance in the government. That's the only good that might come from this.
 

Thomas Veil

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Feb 14, 2004
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OBJECTIVE reality
makisushi said:
I want privatised Social Security, I want to be able to decide how I want to invest it. If i make poor choices, well then its my own fault.
And when you're old and if you did make the wrong choices and you're out of money, guess who you're going to turn to?
 

mypantsaretight

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2004
16
0
Thomas Veil said:
And when you're old and if you did make the wrong choices and you're out of money, guess who you're going to turn to?
He can turn to me. I'll lend him a hand if he needs it. Of course I'll make him wear a big goofy hat and descriptive placard, but I'll still feed and clothe him.
 

augiedb

macrumors newbie
Sep 15, 2004
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Government shrunk in the Clinton administration because a newly-elected Republican Congress (1994) actually had the guts to shrink something. They forced Clinton to go so far as to sign a "workfare" law, which he said he'd fix after the election but never did.

It would be nice to see this stronger Congress work towards a smaller government. This country has gone out of control in the amount it relies on the federal government to do every little thing for it. The problem is that the majority isn't filibuster-proof, political pressures (from the media, quite often) will prevent much of it from being passed easily, and the House isn't nearly fiscally conservative enough. (Or, their social moderacy will prevent their fiscal conservatism. Thus is the trap of "compassionate conservatism.)

The other problem is that this president isn't much of a conservative, either, in many issues. He signed that prescription drug plan that'll cost billions upon billions, for one quick example, and probably the biggest.

I agree that it would be nice to see the IRS eliminated (tho I prefer a flat tax) and government shrunk and entitlements slowed down and more civil services privatized and a return to a country that understood the concept of working for itself, and not relying on everyone else to take care of them and believing that the government provides things for free when all it does is redistribute the wealth---

But it won't happen. I'm not holding my breath. The reason I vote Republican is because it's a slower descent down that socialist agenda than voting for a Democrat.

-Augie
 

mactastic

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Apr 24, 2003
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augiedb said:
Government shrunk in the Clinton administration because a newly-elected Republican Congress (1994) actually had the guts to shrink something.
So why have these brave Republicans lost their way once they have complete control over all 3 branches of gov't? Bush surely wouldn't have vetoed anything they sent him, right?