The Power of American Moral Values

OutThere

macrumors 603
Original poster
Dec 19, 2002
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Recently sighted on CNN: Recently on CNN there was an email-in show, in which people emailed in their questions and comments regarding the tragedy in the Indian Ocean. People were asking the hosts how much money they should donate for the cause, and sometimes asking for advice on what they could do, or how bad the damage really was. Well, soon into the show, a large amount of emails began to arrive saying, to paraphrase, "Who cares about them, why should we send them aid, they didn't send us aid when we were being struck by the hurricanes!" Now, read that again, and think about this:
1) While this years slew of Hurricanes was incredibly damaging to the U.S. and Caribbean, less than 100 people from the United States were killed.
2) The tsunamis in the Indian Ocean have killed an estimated 120,000 people (that's one hundred twenty thousand people) and the damage is estimated to be over 10 billion euros.
3) The death toll is expected to double from disease and unsanitary conditions within the next few weeks.
3) The biggest force in electing Bush for a second term was moral values. Apparently according to the feelings of many Americans, abortion and stem cell research is morally not-ok, but allowing another 120,000 people to die because you will only give to people who have already given to you is morally fine.

What happened to the bible belt? I thought that the members of the highly religious states who supported Bush and his so-called moral values plan were supposed to be raised up by the teachings of Christ? Or do those teachings only apply to members of the homeland? To say that aid should be denied to the countries affected by this tragedy because they did not support us in a time of need is a HEINOUS and HORRIBLE thing to say. This process must be reversed, and an end put to American xenophobism.

/rant
 

Thanatoast

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2002
1,005
134
Denver
Morals can not be applied to undermenschen from other countries because one cannot expect such mongrels to understand proper Christian moral motivation. If one's will cannot be exercised over one's subject, then that subject has no morals. Morals, after all, are laws codified by governments backing the narrow interpretation of specific, hand-picked scriptures from the Bible, God's only word.
 

Lyle

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2003
1,874
0
Madison, Alabama
OutThere761 said:
Recently sighted on CNN: Recently on CNN there was an email-in show, in which people emailed in their questions and comments regarding the tragedy in the Indian Ocean. People were asking the hosts how much money they should donate for the cause, and sometimes asking for advice on what they could do, or how bad the damage really was. Well, soon into the show, a large amount of emails began to arrive saying, to paraphrase, "Who cares about them, why should we send them aid, they didn't send us aid when we were being struck by the hurricanes!"
Which show was this? It's questionable to me that there were a "large amount of e-mails" with the kind of attitude you described. On the contrary, it seems like there's been an enormous outpouring of support from the U.S. and other countries around the world.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,915
1,466
Palookaville
Don't be so sure. I made the mistake of reading some messages posted on the Yahoo news boards attached to the tsunami story, and saw no small amount of "ha-ha, more dead dumb Asians!" remarks. There's a lot of sick minds out there, and for whatever reason, these days they are having their say in public.
 

OutThere

macrumors 603
Original poster
Dec 19, 2002
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Lyle said:
Which show was this? It's questionable to me that there were a "large amount of e-mails" with the kind of attitude you described. On the contrary, it seems like there's been an enormous outpouring of support from the U.S. and other countries around the world.
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IJ Reilly said:
Don't be so sure. I made the mistake of reading some messages posted on the Yahoo news boards attached to the tsunami story, and saw no small amount of "ha-ha, more dead dumb Asians!" remarks. There's a lot of sick minds out there, and for whatever reason, these days they are having their say in public.
The people with these points of view are getting out there and saying it now, as they have been confirmed that their views are (at least a little bit) supported by the current administration, as demonstrated by the 15 million dollar government aid package that went to helping out, and how much has been spent in Iraq? $147,522,622,281 according to http://www.costofwar.com/. Where has this money gone? Well, into killing people of course, since that is the best way to 'bring freedom' to the Iraqi people, and, of course, freedom comes first over life. :rolleyes:
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,388
7
toronto
imo, the so-called "moral values" cited in the last election are about fear. nothing to fear in the US from the tsunamis, ergo "**** 'em".

now i'll make an offensive generalization about right-wingers: they care for people only up until the moment they're born. then they're on their own.
 

dotnina

macrumors 6502a
Aug 19, 2004
856
0
Actually, we've given $35 million now. I'm not saying this is a significant amount -- in fact, I just read elsewhere here that $35 million comes out to about $0.13 per person in the US -- just setting the record straight on that. By contrast, Britain has given about $28 million and Spain has given about $68 million (sorry, I just read the story but can't find the link now).

I'm pretty angry that Bush is still vacationing in Texas while Colin Powell is visiting Thailand and a few other of the tsunami-stricken countries. It's really shameful of the president, I think, and I hope he comes under a lot of bipartisan criticism for it.

------
Edit: And fantastic, we have a drug company donating more money than what the entire US has pledged thus far.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,915
1,466
Palookaville
In a more general sense, we've seen the administration beating the drum of nationalism pretty relentlessly since 9-11, and that tends to embolden the "America first, everybody else eat s---" crowd. I've noticed they've been crawling out from under their rocks in increasing numbers. They've also been encouraged by the some of the more militant members of the right wing media. I've asked many times why the mainstream of the Republican party doesn't condemn some of the more intemperate remarks made by Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly and Coulter et. al. but I've never really had a satisfactory explanation.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
11,745
3,991
Republic of Ukistan
dotnina said:
By contrast, Britain has given about $28 million and Spain has given about $68 million (sorry, I just read the story but can't find the link now).
Update: the UK is now giving $100 million, and a further $50 million has already been given in private donations.
 

pdham

macrumors member
Jan 28, 2003
71
0
Madison
OutThere761 said:
Recently sighted on CNN: Recently on CNN there was an email-in show, in which people emailed in their questions and comments regarding the tragedy in the Indian Ocean. People were asking the hosts how much money they should donate for the cause, and sometimes asking for advice on what they could do, or how bad the damage really was. Well, soon into the show, a large amount of emails began to arrive saying, to paraphrase, "Who cares about them, why should we send them aid, they didn't send us aid when we were being struck by the hurricanes!" Now, read that again, and think about this:
1) While this years slew of Hurricanes was incredibly damaging to the U.S. and Caribbean, less than 100 people from the United States were killed.
2) The tsunamis in the Indian Ocean have killed an estimated 120,000 people (that's one hundred twenty thousand people) and the damage is estimated to be over 10 billion euros.
3) The death toll is expected to double from disease and unsanitary conditions within the next few weeks.
3) The biggest force in electing Bush for a second term was moral values. Apparently according to the feelings of many Americans, abortion and stem cell research is morally not-ok, but allowing another 120,000 people to die because you will only give to people who have already given to you is morally fine.

What happened to the bible belt? I thought that the members of the highly religious states who supported Bush and his so-called moral values plan were supposed to be raised up by the teachings of Christ? Or do those teachings only apply to members of the homeland? To say that aid should be denied to the countries affected by this tragedy because they did not support us in a time of need is a HEINOUS and HORRIBLE thing to say. This process must be reversed, and an end put to American xenophobism.

/rant

Who said these people are Christian.... we seem to have trouble remembering that just because someone is a right winger, maybe radical, voted for Bush, or heck even if they call themselves a Christian does not make it true, not to mention the fact that these people emailing in never even claimed to be Christian or even conservatives. Judge the Christian faith by those that hold to the teachings of CHrist, because that is what a real Christian is called to do. My wife and I donated to the realief fund and we did it because Jesus told us to care for the least of them...

So to basically blame the Christian faith for the ungenerous nature of this wealthy nation seems a little over the edge.
 

Lyle

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2003
1,874
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Madison, Alabama
zimv20 said:
now i'll make an offensive generalization about right-wingers: they care for people only up until the moment they're born. then they're on their own.
Yes, I'll have to retract my previous statement. Everyone here in the Bible Belt is, frankly, ecstatic about the devastation caused by the tsunami. Well, I say "everyone"; it's mainly the Christians who are dancing in the streets, of course, but their enthusiasm has really spread into the community at large. At the mall, they've designed a little contest around the disaster: the person who guesses closest to the eventual death toll wins a shopping spree. There's even a little tote board out in front, to track the latest body count.
 

pdham

macrumors member
Jan 28, 2003
71
0
Madison
mactastic said:
Many in this country judge Muslims by the acts of a radical few...
Are you saying that that makes it ok to rant against an entire religion, that if actually followed would command you to give to those in SE Asia, because a few callers on a show, who never even claimed to be Chrisitan by the way, said some truely horrible things?

Paul

P.S. I know you well enough from your other posts to know you weren't trying to imply that, but why defend such an obvious unsubstantiated attack?
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
3,647
661
Colly-fornia
No, I'm just reminding people that are incensed that someone would judge Christianity by the acts of a few who we aren't even sure are Christian that the same thing happens to others as well.
 

pdham

macrumors member
Jan 28, 2003
71
0
Madison
mactastic said:
No, I'm just reminding people that are incensed that someone would judge Christianity by the acts of a few who we aren't even sure are Christian that the same thing happens to others as well.

Point taken, and a very good one at that... let this be a lesson for everyone I suppose... I also apologize for putting words in your mouth, or on your monitor in this case. Thanks for clarifying. Sorry again.

Paul
 

Lyle

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2003
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Madison, Alabama
mactastic said:
No, I'm just reminding people that are incensed that someone would judge Christianity by the acts of a few who we aren't even sure are Christian that the same thing happens to others as well.
Excellent point, mac (as usual).

On a side note, to address the seemingly automatic assocation of Christianity with the Republican party: I've heard apocryphal stories that some Christians actually vote Democratic. (Apologies that I can't back this up with any references from legitimate news sources, per MR custom.)
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,388
7
toronto
Lyle said:
Yes, I'll have to retract my previous statement. Everyone here in the Bible Belt is, frankly, ecstatic about the devastation caused by the tsunami. Well, I say "everyone"; it's mainly the Christians who are dancing in the streets, of course, but their enthusiasm has really spread into the community at large. At the mall, they've designed a little contest around the disaster: the person who guesses closest to the eventual death toll wins a shopping spree. There's even a little tote board out in front, to track the latest body count.
well played.

my observation is based on the GOP platform. pro-life, pro-capital punishment, anti-handouts, cater to the better off.
 

Lyle

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2003
1,874
0
Madison, Alabama
zimv20 said:
well played.
Yes, the combination of several restless nights, antibiotics, decongestants and caffeine seems to have really sharpened my rapier wit. I didn't mean to unload on you personally, you were just in the line of fire (so to speak). ;)

zimv20 said:
my observation is based on the GOP platform. pro-life, pro-capital punishment, anti-handouts, cater to the better off.
OK, fair enough.
 

zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,388
7
toronto
Lyle said:
I didn't mean to unload on you personally, you were just in the line of fire (so to speak). ;)
no worries at all. i found it clever and well worded. and delightfully sarcastic.
 

Roger1

macrumors 65816
Jun 3, 2002
1,152
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Michigan
Lyle said:
Yes, I'll have to retract my previous statement. Everyone here in the Bible Belt is, frankly, ecstatic about the devastation caused by the tsunami. Well, I say "everyone"; it's mainly the Christians who are dancing in the streets, of course, but their enthusiasm has really spread into the community at large. At the mall, they've designed a little contest around the disaster: the person who guesses closest to the eventual death toll wins a shopping spree. There's even a little tote board out in front, to track the latest body count.
That is sick.
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
3,647
661
Colly-fornia
Lyle said:
On a side note, to address the seemingly automatic assocation of Christianity with the Republican party: I've heard apocryphal stories that some Christians actually vote Democratic. (Apologies that I can't back this up with any references from legitimate news sources, per MR custom.)
My parents are Catholics who vote Democratic consistently. Go figure. And with the standards of late around here that could be considered solid proof for you point.

But on the subject of who Christianity is associated with these days, more than once I've heard conservatives accusing the left of not only not being Christian, but being actively anti-Christian. Actually I heard quite a lot of it recently what with the whole X-mas fiasco. Many of the more vocal mouthpieces on the right were fostering an image of liberals as anti-Christian, which really isn't the case.
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,693
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LaLaLand, CA
You almost forgot hating homosexuality. It's ok to kill people, or let them die, but we can't have 2 people we'll probably never meet be together. Of course, not all are like that. As said above, not all Christians believe this way. Just as not all Muslims want to blow us up. So we can't blame the religion for the acts of those who would use it to justify their hate.

But to be fair, I don't think that's what the original poster meant. It is a bit hypocritical for those who claim to be such good [insert religious belief system here] to behave in a manner seemingly against what their religion teaches. But that's always what happens with a belief system. It can be bent and twisted to push any agenda, especially hate or exclusion. Or power.

Plus it's easier to talk about morality than to actually be moral.
 

amnesiac1984

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2002
760
0
Europe
EDIT: I realise it was tongue in cheek now :p

THis event has been another in a series of events that just seems to worsen the USA's image.

It's not all your (USA) fault though. I find it disgusting that we have millions of people out shopping in the sales in this country spending billions of pounds when we are only sending millions in aid. Someone needs to go down there with a megaphone shouting "DO YOU REALLY NEED ALL THIS CRAP, WHAT IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A HOME, HOW WOULD THIS BARGAIN SOFA HELP YOU THEN? I MEAN SOME OF THIS STUFF ISN'T THAT BAD BUT CAN YOU GO ON LIVING IF YOU DIDN'T BUY IT? YES, BUT MANY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL NOT GO ON LIVING IF YOU DO"

I mean the argument against abortion is that it is destroying the potential of life. Every penny spent at the sales this year is a penny not sent to help the asians, thats preventing the potential of a life to be saved, isn't that just as bad as abortion?