The Real B@ttlefield

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sydde, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #1
    T-Blossom v. Anon

    Why was Karl Rove was so very off balance election night? The hacker group Anonymous claims they know. They claim to have thwarted Rove's "Project ORCA", which was ostensibly a real-time get-out-the-vote system, to make sure that R voters were reminded to vote if the ORCA system had not recorded them having done so. The hackers claim to have locked down the dedicated pipes that ORCA had set aside, bollixed their servers, effectively shut Rove's system down completely.

    So this is the next field of b@ttle for elections? Now that zillions of dollars cannot buy a seat, it comes down to who can better manipulate the computers and telecoms? Ultimately, to me, it seems like six of one vs. a half-dozen of the other.

    On the surface, it looks like Anonymous attacked a system that was carrying out a legal, ethical, even in its way laudable activity, so one might suggest that they are the real villains. OTOH, this is Karl Rove we are talking about. His absolute certainty about Ohio and total meltdown on TV strongly suggests there was more to ORCA than just get-out-the-voters. Karl Rove ethical? I will believe that when I see proof.
     
  2. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Location:
    On tenterhooks
    #2
    So, Karl has suckled at the political teat right from school. Has he ever had an actual 'job'?

    Twice-divorced? How does that bode for a guy with a middle name of Christian?

    Not well.

    Unfortunately, he's only 62, so you guys will be stuck with his machinations for quite a few years yet, before he finally croaks.
     
  3. Sydde thread starter macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #3
    One thing we have learned is that failure is punished with promotions in R-land. Rove is a floater, he will be back, with even more funding, hopefully to fail even better next time. Unless, of course, he Breitbarts.
     
  4. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    OBJECTIVE reality
    #4
    I think Rove is a detestable human being...well, he's detestable anyway...but the idea that somebody hacked into any candidate's computer system makes me ill. Citizens United was bad enough, but this under-the-radar stuff, if true, should get someone thrown in jail.

    Is this what we're coming to? That we won't even be able to trust election results in the future? We supposed that the villain in cases like this might be Diebold, but it just as likely could be the guy next door.

    (FWIW, I don't think this is why Rove was off on election night. I think that totally came from living in the bubble.)
     
  5. VulchR, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012

    VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #5
    Actually, I hope the story about the hackers isn't true, for it is a monumentally foolish idea. First, even if one chooses to ignore the law it is immoral to influence elections by illegal means. Second, once the Republicans get hold of this, there will be no end of election doubters and we'll have 4 years of 'He was elected based on dirty tricks'.

    If this claim is true, then well done Anonymous, you bell ends. :mad:

    FWIW - Rove's so-called 'meltdown' was based on flawed statistical reasoning I hear virtually every day teaching university students statistics. Add to that a healthy dose of denial (as noted above) and he was bound to make an error. As Sam Wang of PEC put it: “BREAKING: Numbers continue to be best tool for determining which of two things is larger.”
     
  6. splitpea macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Location:
    Among the starlings
    #6
    What I think the OP was implying (if poorly phrased) was that Orca was intended to hack e-voting machines (see also: anomalies in Romneys numbers in the Ohio primaries) and that by hacking it, Anonymous would have been preventing election stealing.

    Yes, it sounds conspiracy theory-ish but I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility.
     
  7. Huntn, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #7
    Are you saying that these hackers subverted the GOP Get out the vote campaign? I read the article and it implies that hackers stopped a GOP program designed to actually change vote outcomes. Or was this program only designed to pinpoint Republicans who had not voted?

    If it is the former, a vote changing program, or a program designed to alter the reporting of logged votes, which seems extreme, but not impossible, then Rove, his group, and his computer program should be investigated. If true, they should be thrown in jail.

    If it is the latter, and the program's only purpose was to get GOP voters out to vote, then I disprove of this manipulation. Only in the most extreme cases would I consider the "end justifies the means" and under no circumstances should anyone be allowed to use software manipulation to mess up the other sides "legal" campaigning efforts and/or subvert the democratic process.


    This Business Insider article just refers to it as a "get out the vote" program. Of course this is not proof one way or the other, but based on what I've read, it sounds like hackers were screwing with the GOP's get out the vote efforts.

    This Daily Kos article claims the program was vote tabulation manipulation software. If true, it has to be illegal. Is this beyond what the GOP would consider to win an election?... absolutely not. More investigation seems to be called for in either case.

     
  8. VulchR, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012

    VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #8
    I read the original article. If Anonymous, or anybody else, has evidence of vote-rigging in 2004 - or indeed the most recent election - they should contact the relevant authorities. The alleged vote-rigging in Ohio in 2004 was mentioned as a justification for the Anonymous hack, but it wasn't really clear to me what the hack targeted. If the hack did disrupt the efforts of Republicans to get out the vote, then I think it was wrong. It can never be a good thing to have fewer voters. If it didn't, then what exactly did the hack do? :confused:
     
  9. Sydde thread starter macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #9
    It all just puts me in mind of something like Tammany Hall. Whether CrossroadsGPS was thwarted in a legitimate endeavour or prevented from underhanded manipulation matters not, the system does not appear to belong to the voters one way or the other. This is the b@ttlefield of elections, not the ballot box, it comes down to the Deminerds vs. the Republigeeks. The election is a barbecue feast, the voters are the herefords.
     
  10. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #10
    If this story is true—and Anonymous doesn't have the credibility to make me take their word—then we've reached a dangerous point in elections. Not only does this mean that the election will be a contest between which party can rally the best hackers, but it means that the results will always been under contention.

    We've already seen how toxic a close race can be with the 2000 election and this will just acerbate that feeling and push us closer to have the electoral trust of a banana republic.
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #11
    As much as I hope Anonymous did not sabotage the Republican's get-out-the-vote system, their accusation about vote rigging puts Trump's statement that Rove wasted millions into a new light.
     
  12. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    #12
    Anonymous didn't sabotage the get-out-the-vote system. That thing wasn't even tested on a wide scale because Romney's campaign wanted to keep their beached whale a secret. Turning something on at 6am the day of the election and then crossing your fingers, like so many other things in their campaign, was an incompetent decision.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #13
    Who is this system for? People who don't have a TV and can't read? How could you not know there was an election ongoing? People in Canada knew about it. :rolleyes:
     
  14. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #14
    Still not sure what they are claiming. First, it appears they installed a firewall (Oz) that was meant to prevent vote-rigging, but then they refer to ORCA-killer, and I thought ORCA was the Republican's GOTV program. Or did I misread their announcement?
     
  15. splitpea macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Location:
    Among the starlings
    #15
    They're suggesting that ORCA, which was billed as a gotv database, was actually (also) vote hacking software.
     
  16. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    #16
    OK - but how could vote-rigging occur when the firewall was in place already? Something doesn't seem right about Anonymous' actions. I guess we'll never know what truly happened.... I am surprised that this isn't big news.
     
  17. splitpea macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Location:
    Among the starlings
    #17
    My understanding of what's posted above is that anonymous claims to have prevented the vote rigging by installing a firewall that also incidentally led to problems with the softwares legitimate gotv uses.
     

Share This Page