The release of some Gitmo detainees.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by DearthnVader, Jan 8, 2017.

  1. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #1
    I have to say, I don't like it, but I understand it. We can't hold people without trial or charge, indefinitely, and pretend to be a nation of laws.

    I'm assuming we're letting them go because we don't have any evidence to charge them with a crime, which brings into question why we were holding them in the first place. I have no doubt that some, or most of these men are very dangerous, and that's all the more reason not to detain them without some sort of evidence that we can use to charge them with a crime. Some, or most of them will likely return to terrorism, for as much as we pay for our intelligence apparatus, they should be able to keep a close eye on them.

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/ob...dened-gitmo-terrorists-before-leaving-office/
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    Obama making the world more dangerous by the day.
     
  3. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #3
    Nah. America returning to a slave-owning country was more dangerous. We should either free all the slaves we are holding in Guantanamo, or give them their day in court; otherwise, our country remains morally bankrupt.
     
  4. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #4
    Obama didn't make the world dangerous, and doing dumb things like holding people indefinitely, without charge, or evidence, makes the world a more dangerous place. Do you think others don't see our hypocrisy?

    Do you think that everyone that is suspected of a crime is guilty, and should be locked up indefinitely, without charge or trial?

    If they had evidence against these men, they had lots of time to bring it forward and charge them, depriving people of basic human rights is contrary to our founding principles. After the Civil War virtually everyone who fought for the South was pardoned or granted amnesty. Did Andrew Johnson make the world a more dangerous place?
     
  5. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #5
    Guantanamo Bay and Bush2 talking bout a "crusade" after 9/11 are ISIL's most effective tools for recruiting.

    One can be removed from the equation.
     
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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  7. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #7
    "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none." -President Jefferson

    If we held true to this principle, the world would be a far less dangerous place.
     
  8. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #8
    Why are you guys so keen on charging people - who in any other circumstance would be prisoners of war - with a crime?

    These guys are bad guys. They are terrorists who have been directly involved with either plotting to, or taking active part in attacks on us, whom they see clearly as their enemy, in what they see clearly as a war, even if we don't.

    The fact that we don't have a country to declare war on doesn't change anything.

    Don't want to detain them any more? Ok. Put a bullet in their head, because releasing them back into the battlefield has and will result in more US casualties.

    If we cannot stomach how to fight this war, then we should just walk away and give them the world - since that's what they want, and we are the infidels standing in their way.

    Of course Obama had a different approach than taking prisoners. He simply ordered drone attacks and killed everyone in the building. I guess that's a better approach after all. We won't get any intelligence out of captured prisoners, but since the left can't understand a war like this, just kill them all with a video game controller from 8000 miles away instead.

    I'm not totally opposed to that approach either, though I would prefer we gather intel when possible.
     
  9. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #9
    So that's how you would treat a prisoner of war, with a bullet to the back of the head?

    Let's just detain everyone we find near the battlefield, regardless of circumstance, torture them for information, and when we find the end of there usefulness to us, put a bullet in the back of their head.

    Undeclared, unending war, on who, enemies of the State?

    Everyone has the Right to a fair trial, and not to be detained without charge, if you have any evidence of your claims, "They are terrorists who have been directly involved with either plotting to, or taking active part in attacks on us", where is it?

    You think they have evidence, and they are letting them go, rather than holding a military tribunal?

    These people are subject to some form of law, for it is law that is the basis of society, if we exclude them from the law, we are not only no better than they are, we are sowing the seeds of our own destruction.
     
  10. Gutwrench Suspended

    Gutwrench

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    #10
    I don't think Obama should be doing this. What is he trying to accomplish right now?

    I would have liked a public accounting of each person's background and an assessment of the likelihood they'll be freed after delivery and likelihood they'd then return to the battlefield.
     
  11. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #11
    Wait, what? You're saying these are bad people. Killers. And yet, they are not criminals? You want to treat them as murderers, yet you don't believe they committed any crimes?

    Honestly, if you don't think they are criminals, I don't see why we shouldn't just release them back into world to continue their non-criminal acts. And if they are criminals, they should be charged and taken to court. I just don't see the middle ground you seem to be occupying.
     
  12. border terrier macrumors regular

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    #12
    You can't have prisoners of war unless you have a state of war between two countries. Once the war is over, the negotiated surrender typically contains a declaration or agreement on what will happen to prisoners of war. If certain persons are to remain captive, it is convention to do so only after being found guilty at trial and then typically for war crimes or other serious crimes such as murder. The key words here are 'after being found guilty at trial'.

    This doesn't apply to those held in gitmo as the US is not currently at war with the country or origin for those being detained and as far as I understand it the detinees have been held without evidence that would stand up in court, let alone being found guilty by a court.

    To use 'war on terror' or 'war against IS" is fine but lets not conflate and confuse an act of or state of war between two nations as being the same as a "war on terror" because it isn't. Ergo there cannot be prisoners of war and therefore international law/conventions should be followed. These people should be charged or released.

    Of course dictatorships do not abide by such conventions, they merely round up people they don't like or who they 'justify' might be a threat and then just throw away the key.
     
  13. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #13
    What do you think charging someone with a crime, and holding a trial is, other than a public accounting?
     
  14. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #14
    Obama should be in jail for holding them in the first place

    These guys should be tried or be freed.
     
  15. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #15
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant
     
  16. Gutwrench Suspended

    Gutwrench

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    #16
    Are you confusing Constitutional rights of citizens with prisoners from conflicts like al-Qaeda. The Geneva Convention doesn't even help.

    Simply releasing international terrorists seems like a terrible idea. Do you not have any concern they will return to the battlefield to target civilians?
     
  17. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #17
    I'm not confusing anything, you seem to fail to understand basic human rights, and think anyone one suspected of terrorism can be held indefinitely, without charge, evidence, or trial.
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #18
    We can release them to stay at your house then if you are so sure. Most of these people were captured on the battlefield.
     
  19. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #19
    We'll lock you and your family up, indefinitely, without charge, evidence, or trial, if you're so sure.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #20
    Posted from your safe location in the US. Under current US policy these people would all be dead, Obama would rather kill them than have to store them somewhere because its too inconvenient for him.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 8, 2017 ---
    Lets also be clear, if one of these releases comes back and blows something up in the US, its going to be 100% Obama's fault. Im already predicting the left pissing their pants in joy over a terrorist attack that they caused happening on Trump's watch.
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    Gazillion people on the battlefield. They should be tried or let go
     
  22. DearthnVader thread starter macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #22
    You have no argument, only your assumption that these 18 people are terrorist, and therefor not afforded any legal distinction, pure arrogance. There is no group of people that exist outside some from of law, you fail to understand the human right to a fair trial, or even what a human right is.

    I hope someday, someone affords you the same curtesy, maybe even one of these 18 people.
     
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    I was about to give up on you yesterday with your "DOOM porn."

    But on this subject, you've suddenly turned into the squishiest, liberal, humanist in the land.

    And I love you for it.
     
  24. Gutwrench Suspended

    Gutwrench

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    #24
    I don't understand basic human rights? That's all you have? Ok.
     
  25. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #25
    I hope they release them into your neighborhood.
     

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