The religion of love and peace

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by haxrnick, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. haxrnick macrumors 6502a

    haxrnick

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    #1
  2. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #2
  3. 556fmjoe macrumors 65816

    556fmjoe

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    #3
    Muslims make up about 1/4 of the world. The percentage of them involved in violent extremism like this is astronomically low. There are also plenty of good arguments that say religion is not even at the heart of what they are doing, and is being used as a justification to grab political power.
     
  4. noodlemanc macrumors regular

    noodlemanc

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    From this Telegraph article:

    These results are from a poll of Muslim students:
    – 33% claim that killing is justified if done to protect religion.
    – 40 percent support the introduction of sharia for British Muslims.
    – 33 percent support a worldwide Islamic caliphate based on sharia.

    These results are from Muslims polled (16 – 24) for Policy Exchange:
    -37 percent of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain.
    -36 percent of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed.
    -13 percent of young British Muslims said they “admired” Al Qaeda.

    -According to Channel 4 Polls in August 2006, reported in both the Scotsman and the Financial Times:
    -24 per cent agreed or tended to agree that the 7/7 bombings were justified.
    -45 per cent think 9/11 was carried out by the US or Israel.

    16 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Israel.
    -7 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Britain.

    NOP Channel 4 polling came out with these results:
    -33% of Muslims want Sharia Law as implemented in Saudi Arabia.
    -28% of muslims agreed they dreamt of Britain becoming an Islamic State.
    -78% wanted Danish cartoonist prosecuted.
    -68% want prosecutions for insulting Islam.
    -62% disagree with the freedom of speech if it insults religious sensibilities.
    -50% said British people who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted.
    -Between 5-9% say that violence to protect Islam is acceptable.
    -Whilst 10-13% found that they “understood” why young muslims might want to become suicide bombers.

    That's not just a few of extremists -- seems to be significant portions have quite concerning views.
     
  5. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    I will say that most Muslims are not extremists. But I feel most Muslims do not necessarily condemn extremist actions.

    I'm NOT talking about the ultra extreme actions like mass killings or 9/11 like terrorism.

    But I feel most Muslims would not condemn extreme punishments or even killing of those they considered to disrespect Islam.
     
  6. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    Those are concerning numbers, but that means about 2/3 of those Muslims accross the board disagree. I think this proves that it is not an entire religion that should be put on blast. I bet if you changed the poll to 'christian' and went down south, you would find a lot of extremist opinions.
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #7
    I've only known a couple Muslims, both from Pakistan, both were extremely sexist under the guise of culture and also exhibited extreme hatred of gays, like thinking they should die hatred.
     
  8. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    Let's be honest, the Quran is not a book of equality.
     
  9. thekev, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2014

    thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #9
    I probably know more people who immigrated from various parts of the Middle East than you've met over the course of your entire life (clarifying : middle eastern people you've met). Care to guess how they feel about the situation there? I realize that's not verifiable, but you guys are looking at the wrong thing. These groups rely on instability for recruitment and use humanitarian aid, threats, or a combination of the two to gain local support. Beyond that calling out the indoctrination of one group vs another isn't going to solve anything.
     
  10. haxrnick, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2014

    haxrnick thread starter macrumors 6502a

    haxrnick

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    #10
    Tell me how it's just a part of them, then tell me how ALL christians are bad

    Do it
     
  11. noodlemanc macrumors regular

    noodlemanc

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    Well, it depends on which statistic you're talking about. Only 24% thought that the 7/7 bombings were justified, meaning that the other 76% thought that they were not. However I think that the 78% wanting a Danish cartoonist prosecuted, even though less extreme, is much more worrying. When you have large numbers of people of a certain religion coming into a country like the U.K, and 78% of them don't believe in freedom of speech, then the prospects for freedom in the country aren't looking too good.

    Westerners for the most part have learnt the hard way to respect strict limits being placed on religion and state authority, and the results can be seen in how much wealth has been created by these countries over the past few hundred years compared to the rest of human history. But there are still a lot of people in the world who do not share these views -- and they are becoming a large proportion of the population of western countries, which is very important for the future of freedom.
     
  12. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #12
    Who on here made the claim that all Christians are bad? The issue is that a few people can manipulate a loyal band of useful idiots to do whatever they want via the use of doctrine. I don't think banning any scripture is going to prevent this. You need a change in cultural attitudes, that are only worsened by civilian casualties in bombing campaigns and US support of various coups over the years. We contribute way too much to the recruiting tools of fanatics.
     
  13. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Muslim extremism is a problem. That's not in question.

    But if you think you can kill them (Muslims), control them, isolate them, or eradicate their faith, you are dreaming.

    The only realistic solution is to learn how to coexist peacefully. I believe that will occur over time. And while there will always be bumps and beheadings in the road, they are the tragic byproduct that we will have to endure.

    That's what's going to happen. We will slowly learn how to share the planet, and along the way there will be ugly, violent episodes that will test our patience and will to live with each other. But I'm sure that beats any alternative you can come up with.

    Go ahead. Propose one.

    Do it.
     
  14. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #14
    It's not about religion, it's about demographics.

    In the 60s and 70s the violence was concentrated in the USA and Western Europe. Why? Because of the baby boom following WWII. Although population growth is beginning to slow in the ME, it peaked in the 80s and 90s when petro dollars flowed unrelentingly into the ME. There's no way that anyone can provide, food, jobs and housing for the hundreds of millions of people born on the back of the petro dollar.

    Rather than trying to engage Isis, we would be better off funding a mass campaign of birth control.
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    However, the percentage of them who support extremism is astronomically high. Here is just one example:

    http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-preface/

    ----------

    This is an excellent point. Within Islam politics and theology are inseparable.
     
  16. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #16
    I fully agree with you, but have a question. Since it takes the cooperation of two parties to coexist, are you referring to both the U.S. (west) and Muslim extremists when saying 'we' slowly learn to share the planet?

    That's my interpretation but want to confirm if you were actually focusing only on U.S. foreign policy. Either way you make a valid point.
     
  17. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Cooperation will come through moderates, not extremists. We'll have to work with the moderates in order to slowly whittle away (disempower) the extremist faction.

    It will be a slow process, one filled with bumps and set-backs.

    However, it anyone believes they can eradicate or control 1.5 billion human beings, they are being both unrealistic and inhumane. Coexistence with Muslims is the only realistic solution.
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #18
    Economic isolation through energy independence would be a much better strategy than working with "moderates" in the ME. You have to reach for the extreme progressives in the Muslim community just to find someone who wants equal rights for women and doesn't want to behead gay people.
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Energy independence would be an interesting twist to add to the equation.

    What do you suggest we do in the meantime?
     
  20. DonJudgeMe, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2014

    DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #20

    You don't read this forum much, do you? I have 2, and I grew up around every major religion this world knows. I was fortunate to as my family is VERY mixed. You, thinking that you can judge any religion based on actions of extremists is so ignorant I cannot even begin to explain. Unfortunately, it is a common disease(ignorance) among many individuals these days. I will admit, it is getting better, but we still have a long way to go.

    My advise. Go backpacking. Journey the world, and see the world through different eyes. Open your mind and heart and experience the world for yourself.
     
  21. bradl, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2014

    bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #21
    As of 2010, there are approximately 204 MILLION Muslims in Indonesia. Please list the approximately 204 million terrorist acts each one of them has committed.

    Be very detailed in your report.

    BL.
     
  22. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #22
    So, are ALL Muslims bad, as you seem to insinuate in your previous eloquent post?
     
  23. stylinexpat macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #24
    That is one of the best posts on this problem.

    Any extreme Political, National, or Religious idea which condones violence is of interest to young males.

    Extreme ideas fit in with groups that are trying to find their place in the world, that they perceive as hostile. The more that these young males are marginalised the more they seek an outlet for their frustrations.

    In western Europe they were the last major wave on immigration, but as they started to settle, the countries of Europe started to automate the factories. The jobs that had been promised just disappeared, it was out of this event that many lost trust in European governments. To add to the problem this was a period when all European countries gave unrestricted support for every act that Israel did. This pushed the Muslim young male into further isolation, radicalisation by some Muslim clerics was the end result.

    The fact of the matter is the there is a whole generation of young angry males, who firmly believe that their place in the sun is being denied to them. This includes White males.

    Whether it’s Front National, UKIP, or PVV the most extreme follower with be a young male. They don’t really know what they want, but they do know what they DON’T want.

    Even when Muslim parties enter the political arena and win an election fair and square, the rest of the world turns a blind eye to a military coup.


    This post in no way sets out to condone the violence, but after nearly 65 years of the western powers (all of them) using violence to get what they wanted.

    Violence just produces more violence.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    a) Jews have their own law applied in certain situations.
    b) Prosecutions for religious hatred isn't that far from standard British values. It's difficult to work out what is hate speech or not.
    c) Muslims are under attack by the West in Israel, and have been so in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are also under attack by other countries who we have decent relations with across Central and South Asia.
    d) I can't disagree that there are a lot of Muslims who are a lot more extreme than I'd like them to be.
    e) Perhaps we need to make serious steps to achieve peace in Israel rather than siding with them relatively blindly.
     

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