The scope of Russian meddling was actually pretty vast

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jerwin, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. jerwin, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

    jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #1
    according to the Senate Intelligence Committee

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/documen...ublishes-two-reports-internet-research-agency

    also, the Internet Research Agency, among other things, targeted people with embarrassing sexual secrets

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/did-internet-research-agency-use-sextortion-against-americans

    [​IMG]

    The Russians made a special effort to peel off african american support for Clinton
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/17/us/politics/russia-2016-influence-campaign.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage
    Oh, yes, in case you were wondering,
    and, it began early


    washington post's take on it

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...739291b326b2d6629d4c6/?utm_term=.6eb2d5d3522d (use private browsing to get past paywall)

     
  2. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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  3. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    Did Google’s CEO lie to Congress when he said the IRA spent the whopping total of $4700 on ads?
     
  4. jerwin, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

    jerwin thread starter macrumors 68020

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    Google was chided for being unhelpful.

    but the $4700 figure isn't found in either report.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 17, 2018 ---
    The Committee commissioned these reports, it did not write them. One of the authors, Renée DiResta ("The Tactics & Tropes of the Internet Research Agency") opined in the new york times today,

     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

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    .

    Russian memes overcome Hillary’s near 1 billion spent on ads. That is AWESOME
     
  6. chagla macrumors 6502a

    chagla

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    Another great article on how IRA targeted African Americans.

    Russian propagandists targeted African Americans to influence 2016 US election

    and people still say Russia didn't meddle with US election? The meddling is insulting, attack on sovereignty IMO.
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

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    #7
  8. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    So the 3 million votes Trump lost the election by, those were overridden by memes and ad buys (half of the ads first claimed were run after the election). What a world.

    Also, did anyone look into the firm that the Senate used to generate their reports? I would assume for people watching this story oh so closely would be interested in that, no?
     
  9. chagla macrumors 6502a

    chagla

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    yes indeed, speaks volume about the intelligence of population, no?
     
  10. Rigby, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

    Rigby macrumors 601

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    And after they had helped install Trump in the Whitehouse, they started targeting the special counsel in charge of investigating possible collusion ...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...0047f6-0230-11e9-8186-4ec26a485713_story.html
    --- Post Merged, Dec 17, 2018 ---
    Yes, but you apparently didn't. There are actually two reports from different teams, and both of them consisted not just of "firms" but also included academic researchers.
     
  11. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #11
    Don't conflate the issue of Russia trying to meddle in our election with how much or how effective a candidates ad campaign was.
     
  12. OLDGUYWITHAHIFI Suspended

    OLDGUYWITHAHIFI

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    #12
    Good idea, but what are we going to do about the problems here?
     
  13. lostngone macrumors 65816

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    But we are "good guys" so that makes it okay when we are doing it!

    The scary thing is people actually believe the above statement!
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    For earnestly calling this system a democracy, sure.
     
  15. OLDGUYWITHAHIFI, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

    OLDGUYWITHAHIFI Suspended

    OLDGUYWITHAHIFI

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    Still can't get over the idea that Americans don't seem to care that Russia meddled in our elections which in turn could affect our democracy, just to support a political party. Lot's of excuses. We continue to downplay it and make stupid excuses. We seem to be fine with spending ungodly amounts of money on defense and the military, but we can't even come to a consensus that other countries meddling in our affairs is not a good thing. Makes no sense.

    The "we do it too" argument is pathetic. It would be like saying my neighbor's kid threw a rock through my window so I guess that makes it ok for me to throw one though theirs. Idiotic way of thinking.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors demi-god

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    Yeah, that convinced me. :oops::rolleyes:
    --- Post Merged, Dec 18, 2018 ---
    End Justifies The Means corruption, carried to the extremes for the political win that some percentage of Republicans have embraced, could be the road to the end of our democracy and liberty.
     
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

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    The problem is that unless you stop unchecked mass communication methods (=social media), you won't be able to stop any meddling. This is an independent evaluation from the fact that the US also engage in international political turmoil. US philosophy of free speech opens up a Pandora's box that is almost impossible to regulate; even social media companies have issues in regulating their own feeds due to the continuous changing landscape of the conversation. It's virtually impossible, for example, to use the same strategy against Russia or China because they have anti-free speech laws that basically halt any type of political conversation (you can't discuss the Tiananmen Square massacre in China; you can't even google it. By Law.).
    I see it as a zero-sum game. We either stop free speech and thus put serious limits on what can be published, or we have to chase the evil cat forever.
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G5

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    Donald Trump lost the election by 3 million votes.

    How in the world it’s not a bigger concern that we have accepted a system that delivered two presidents who lost the popular vote (the way sane democracies elect leaders) in less than 20 years is beyond me.

    The electoral college is by definition an anti-democratic institution, by design, from day ****ing one. THAT is how this absolute moron is president.

    Do any of you vote by meme?
     
  19. Huntn macrumors demi-god

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    #19
    I’ve argued the electoral college is a double edged sword, but since W it has allows the minority with terrible ideas to install their disaster in the White House, to all of our detriment. So in essence the trend of the EC is that it is killing us, when we can’t afford these kinds of terrible choices, 4 more years squandered. Oh yeah, but the ________ is better than Hillary. :rolleyes::oops:
     
  20. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    Not to mention the fact that the Electoral College system makes outside interference with presidential elections much more effective. It’s a lot easier to swing a few thousand votes in a key swing state than a few million votes nationwide.

    Of course, all of this misses the broader point, that it does not matter how effective the Russian interference was. If the Trump campaign was involved in any way in encouraging it (or even if they knew about it and lied about it), then that constitutes grounds for impeachment, regardless of impact.
     
  21. OLDGUYWITHAHIFI, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

    OLDGUYWITHAHIFI Suspended

    OLDGUYWITHAHIFI

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    #21
    So basically you are saying there is nothing we can do to prevent meddling. From what I have read FB deletes accounts that are found to be fake, companies try to protect themselves from government sponsored hacking, our esteemed leader had the chance to confront leaders like Putin about hacking and meddling, but came out of the meeting saying he basically believed Putin.

    There is a lot we could do but don't because the current administration and the Republican Party are protecting Trump and their party from criticism. My guess is every country that Trump is "soft" on and dismissive of is because he is either doing business with them or wants to do business with them. A dangerous game at our expense.

    If Congress would put their weight behind dealing with foreign meddling and interference, theft of intellectual property, etc., like they do looking into Clinton's emails, the problems would be dealt with accordingly. Your dismissal claiming our hands are tied because of the first amendment is clever, but just another attempt at being dismissive.
     
  22. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    As of today, I don't think there is much that we can do to prevent meddling (I suppose that you mean meddling in a substantial way through social media). FB and other social media companies can be reactive to what already happened, but it is virtually impossible to prevent meddling without either changing our laws or without dramatically changing the business model of social media (and internet) companies. Take Facebook, you just need an email account and little more to create an account, nothing that a good agency or group of hackers can't overcome. The moment FB adds more and more requirements, the more cumbersome Facebook will become, and the more people will stop using it (young kids already think it's old). They can't ban political speak because people would just stop using the service, and they can't keep track of everything in a meaningful way in real time (yes, AI helps, but it's still very very limited). This is obviously an exploit of the American idea of free speech (legal AND philosophical). Information sources are now so widespread, wide reaching, and so many that it's impossible to chase all ends.
    [I think that this discussion transcends Trump, the problem existed before him, and it's going to exist way after him. In my opinion it's going to get much much worse.]
     
  23. OLDGUYWITHAHIFI, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018

    OLDGUYWITHAHIFI Suspended

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    #23
    The only reason we do not currently have the tools to combat meddling is because our elected officials have not paid attention to the problem. They are too busy deflecting and pointing fingers at others to protect their party.

    I can't for the life of me understand how we can find a way to have endless committees and hearing about Hillary's emails, but there is nothing that can be done to combat meddling.

    "Two new reports produced for Senate investigators say that Russian influence efforts infected every major social media platform, extensively targeted African-Americans and amounted to what researchers called a "propaganda war against American citizens."

    There are new reports from multiple sources outlining meddling and outside influence. Congress has information to act upon. The problem is they don't want to believe the information, try to discredit the information, and actively blame others.

    It's not just FB but meddling in general. It's people failing to register as foreign agents. It's our own politicians having to recuse themselves due to contact with foreign entities or agents. Our politicians obtaining information from foreign governments or their agents which turns out to be misinformation and propaganda. Agents infiltrating our institutions allegedly linked to the organizations like the NRA or other partisan or special interest groups.

    We could start campaigns to educate voters about checking that news site or verifying that tweet before you share misinformation. Outreach, no different than educating people on how to vote or obtain healthcare.

    If Trump can spend time and resources to find leakers within his administration, he could easily request an investigation into meddling, its reach, and its influence within his own administration, or other agencies. If there truly was no collusion on his part, he would have already done this. Any patriot would see the clear and present danger and act. Now.

    So much isn't being done that claiming there is nothing we can do is just flat out false.
     
  24. BaldiMac macrumors 604

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    #24
    Just a reminder that the GOP has lost the popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections.
     
  25. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    #25
    This is something I never really looked at the details.

    Okay, I get the allegations that Trump and/or just his campaign made a deal with Russia to spread propaganda on social media. Which seems most likely true and completely wrong.

    What I don't get is ..... How was this Russian meddling?(serious question) Is it any different that what the polar opposite media networks FOX and MSNBC were doing? What about when Israel supports a candidate, they also put out media propaganda. Or is this just about Trump directly involved?
     

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93 December 17, 2018