The spreading fissure in the Democratic Party threatens to become a yawning chasm

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, May 18, 2016.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Bernie -vs- the corrupt DNC. The battle is joined.

    It was good to see Bernie's people in Nevada throwing chairs, shouting down establishment shills like the craven Barbara Boxershorts, and generally raising hell. It wasn’t that long ago Bernie was afraid to criticize Hillary on her emails; now he won’t even tell his people to stand down. In fact, I suspect he will encourage them to go even more crazy. Revolutions aren’t won by simpering, pajama-wearing, hot cocoa-sipping snowflakes cowering in their safe spaces. They’re won by highly motivated professional cadres conducting special reconnaissance followed by direct action. So far, Bernie is doing a fine job getting inside Hillary’s decision cycle.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    Bernie FTW, it's a little late to take the gloves off, he needs a good KO punch and I hope he has it in him to do so. last ditch would be to see if trump can work with him :eek:
     
  3. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #3

    Dare I say it? Hillary and Bernie's demagoguery incites violence...brought to you by CNN, ABC, CBS, and Fox.
     
  4. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #4
    What have either of them said that could be construed as demagoguery?
     
  5. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #5
    Someone brought their A game to PRSI today. @DUCKofD3ATH needs to up his game.
     
  6. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #6
    Power is never given; it must be taken.
     
  7. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #7
    Same could be said about Trump when everyone attacked him for inciting violence..

    Bernie; "the establishment !, it's rigged ! we won't give up ! it's a revolution !

    Hillary; "we will put you out of business !", I have a bottle of hot sauce !", heel!, bark, bark ! :D
     
  8. vrDrew, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #8
    I don't think we want a revolution in this country.

    In fact I struggle to think of a revolution in recent history that occurred without a tremendous amount of suffering; of destruction of public and private property; loss of life; terror; and tragedy.

    We live in a Constitutional Representative Federal Republic; with strict rules on the separation of powers. With law-making authority devolved onto a multitude of States and municipalities. We have a strong history of civilian control of our military; we have strong legal and government institutions; we have an independent Judiciary; and we have a lively and vigorous free press.

    No matter how appealing the ideas of Bernie Sanders (or Donald Trump) might seem to their followers; electing either of those people is not going to ensure a "revolutionary" change over much of anything in the United States. The United States President does not have the legal authority to break up Goldman Sachs or Citibank. Nor can the President order the Corps of Engineers to build walls or the Immigration Service to ban Muslims from our shores. And I like it that way.

    So, kindly let us have no more talk of "revolution" in the United States. The people of Iran thought a revolution was going to get rid of a tyrannical Shah. It did - but gave them the Ayatollahs and Mullahs. The Cuban people's Revolution tossed aside the corrupt Batista, but ushered in a half century of oppression and economic disaster.

    Things need to change in this country. As they needed to change from the days of Jim Crow and Segregation. But we shall accomplish those changes we need in this century the same way we achieved them in the last. At the ballot box and in the legislature. The Court House and the Op-Ed page.
     
  9. Jess13, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016

    Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #9
    The U.S. this year is 41st in press freedom worldwide, up from 49th last year, but still terrible and not a “vigorous free press,” that would be Top 10:

    https://rsf.org/en/news/world-press-freedom-index-2015-decline-all-fronts

    https://rsf.org/en/ranking

    Cuba has repeatedly been covertly assailed by CIA during the time period you note. You should listen to Ex-CIA Philip Agee, he quit out of disgust, essentially saying CIA is a terrorist organization. He talked quite a lot about CIA constantly ****ing over the populations of Central/South America and Cuba.

    Philip Agee

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Philip+Agee

    He is featured in The Classified Missions of the CIA. Start @ 15:54 for the image quote, not by Philip Agee but another former CIA officer, Verne Lyon. This guy recounts missions against the Cuban people, and at the start of the program he says that CIA is a ‘state sponsored terrorist organization’:


    CIA Terrorists .jpg


     
  10. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Freedom is based on respect, and respect is earned by the spilling of blood. -- same guy
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #11
    We don't. To further abuse an already well abused phrase, what we're looking for is one great big paradigm shift. A serious look back at what's gone wrong, and to make an earnest attempt to fix it. To get things back on track.

    Though if PRSI is good for one thing, it's good for showing us that getting a bunch of people to agree on what exactly went wrong, and how to fix it would probably require a revolution in and of itself.
     
  12. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Good to see repetitive threads with no new content (*cough* spam *cough*) are alive and well while TPTB are busy taking down one word posts because rules...
     
  13. dsnort macrumors 68000

    dsnort

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    #13
    Depends on what you mean by "revolution". A revolution at the ballot box? Absolutely! Sign me up! "A little revolution, every now and then, is a good thing." Said some guy whose name I can't recall.

    Armed people in the streets? Eh, not so much. But I wouldn't take it off the table completely. Never underestimate the propensity for thieves and scoundrels to denounce the protestations of their intended victims as "extremism". ( Looking at you, DWS) " Those who would make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable". JFK
     
  14. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #14
    I suppose it's natural that conservatives watching the Republican party suffering would like to convince themselves that the same thing is befalling the Democratic party. Except that it's not. Nevada aside, what you're seeing is a party being pulled back to the left. There are clear differences, but nothing near the divide we're seeing on the GOP side between the Wall Streeters, the Tea Partiers, the evangelicals and the Trumpistas.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    We had a revolution (by the terms of a complete change in governing philosophy, including the very economic principles our domestic and foreign policy are based upon) in the 80's. People think that revolution means violence, it does not, it merely means that the structure an principles of a society changes.

    One thing is for sure though, if institutions don't come on board or get out of the way while a revolution is in progress (or god forbid, try to use militarized police to crush it) things are FAR more likely to get violent.
     
  16. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #16
    You've described a temper tantrum. It traces back to parents who caved.
     
  17. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    Just the latest of the many wishful thinking threads to be found in PRSI.

    Dare I say it? Do you know how hilarious this is coming from a Trump supporter? Or is it a situation of using big words you don't understand?
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18
    And when those fantasies don't come to fruition, its just more fuel for the conspiracy theories that keep the paranoia pot bubbling over until the next election comes along.

    The reality is that US Democratic Party, like pretty much every political party everywhere, is made up a coalition of groups with not-totally identical interests and agendas. In the case of Bernie Sanders, its angry liberals and college students who are kidding themselves that breaking up Goldman Sachs and Citibank is a plausible- or effective - solution to whatever economic ills beset the US.

    Come November these people are going to have a choice to make. Between an experienced, respected, pragmatic, but not universally loved (or lovable) former Secretary of State and Senator. And a blow-hard reality TV star.

    I'm not too worried that millions of Bernie Bros are going to end up voting for Donald Trump. Trump isn't the cause of America's current economic and social problems. But he surely has to be the ultimate symptom of the festering cancer that lies within.
     
  19. NT1440, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016

    NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #19
    You've got to be ****ing kidding me Drew. You're clearly intelligent. No one is suggesting that the single action of busting up Goldman or Citi is a magic bullet. But you recognize that they are a threat to not only the health of the financial industry, but global economy as well. To pick out one point in a much larger systemic reform that is desperately needed is not only dishonest, coming from someone such as yourself who clearly has the ability to look at larger macro level issues, it is borderline disingenuous.
     
  20. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #20
    I recognize that Sanders platform consists of more than just breaking up big banks.

    But I also recognize that pretty much every bullet-point on Sanders agenda is - from a practical standpoint - simply economically or politically unobtainable in this country. Free college for all sounds like a great idea. Until you break down the actual cost of such a program. And the economic dislocation it would wreak on pretty much every aspect of our economy. Getting money out of politics is a good idea too. But one difficult to reconcile with a Constitution that has Free Speech as one of its fundamental cornerstones.

    One of the things I found most interesting about the Democratic debates earlier this year was the degree of civility and agreement on many issues between Sanders and Clinton. Are there differences? Sure. But overall they have far more in common than they do in opposition.
     
  21. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    I agree our banks need to be gotten under control. I would not describe @vrDrew's post as disengenious though. I think Bernie has many good points, but I worry how his self described socialist credentials would stand up in a general election.
     
  22. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #22

    IMO, Bernie blew it when he was asked how he'd break up the banks and had no answer, and still doesn't.
     
  23. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #23
    Easy, do some AT&T action on them. :)
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #24
    That's funny, you clearly didn't follow the story in context or read the transcript in context.

    There are things in flux here, and the reporters questioning him clearly conflated issues as well.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sanders-has-a-plan-to-break-up-the-big-banks/

    What Bernie is being faulted for is not having a bumper sticker version of a massively complex process that has more than one way (that would likely need to be combined) to resolve.

    Are we looking for substance and nuance, or do you want trillions of dollars in the global economy to be handled by soundbite?
     
  25. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #25
    I'm looking for a plan. A plan that we should have in detail after running for a year.
     

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