The state of europe in 2016: German Comedian Faces 5 Years In Jail For Mocking Turkish President

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Meister, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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  2. Ironduke Suspended

    Ironduke

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    #3
    whats america?

    because it aint no democracy
     
  3. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #4
    Of course not.
    It was meant to be a republic.

    The difference to europe is the constitution, which grants every inhabitant rights that can not be infringed upon.

    If you don't like the 2nd amendment, freedom of religion and freedom of speech, go away and enjoy repression like in the rest of the world.
     
  4. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #5
    I think the Turkish PM has a right to consider legal action. The poem went beyond the realms of freedom of speech with serious accusations that were defamatory. People here seem to think you are entitled to say whatever you like and hide behind freedom of speech. When you start making harmful statements that could ruin someone's character/life, it crosses the line.

    This idiot deserves the flack he is getting IMO.

    Religion doesn't even come into this despite the spin of this thread.
     
  5. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #6
    He's a comedian. In no way did he ruin Erdogan's life. All he did was ruin a politician's ego, and in 2016 that shouldn't be a crime worthy of five years in prison.
     
  6. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #7
    Yes. Europe is showing its true colours. The sooner we kill it and start over the better.
     
  7. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #8
    Erdogan deserves to be mocked, and, unless Erdogan actually does the things that the comedian said, there is no harm because nobody listening to that would believe that Erdogan does those things. Sticks and stones ...

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out, for while the law might be on the German books, it probably has not been tested in EU courts. I suspect any case taken to the EU courts will result in the German law being struck down. And for the record, it is those EU courts that prevent the Tories in the UK from trampling all sorts of human rights.

    Americans might be interested to know that in the UK double jeopardy is allowed, the right to trial by jury has been abolished, the right to use statistical and scientific evidence in defence in court cases have been curtailed, there is no freedom of assembly, detention without charge is allowed, and the right to silence to avoid self-incrimination was abolished in the UK but then reinstated by the EU courts. It's nice to know what US soldiers in two world wars fought for....
     
  8. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #9
    I don't agree with a 5 year prison sentence either. But my point was this is not under freedom of speech because you can't say whatever you like if it causes damage to somebody's character. He may be a comedian but I doubt the vast majority of people have heard of him. I know I hadn't.
     
  9. Meister, Apr 13, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016

    Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #10
    Germany has a variety of laws that prohibit free speech and every year several hundreds of thousands of people are prosecuted for saying the wrong thing.

    In 2007 the EU commission has urged them to change their laws, but nothing has happened.

    http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc07/EDOC11305.htm

    There have also been cases in Strassbourg and Germany lost, but they show no intentions of changing their laws.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 13, 2016 ---
    The very definition of freedom of speech is to say whatever you like.

    If the other person can prove damages they can file a lawsuit.

    Making unwelcome speech a criminal offense is always wrong and portraits the true face of europe and the totalitarian attitude of people like yourself.
     
  10. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    Free speech no matter what? Even a radical Islamic hate preacher?
     
  11. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #12
    "Radical Islamic hate preacher" is a lable - not an action.
     
  12. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    OK, a "Radical Islamic hate preacher" preaching hate. That cool with you?

    What about "comidian" Dieudonne - should he be allowed to spout off his anti-Semitism or were his convictions justified?
     
  13. Meister, Apr 13, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016

    Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #14
    The first amendment is very clear on this.

    And no, "Radical Islamic hate preacher preaching hate" is not cool with me. WTF is that even supposed to mean?
     
  14. Apples n' Stone macrumors 6502a

    Apples n' Stone

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    #15
    It's being implied you'd care if it was anti-west hate, I assume.
     
  15. juanm, Apr 13, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016

    juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #16
    Why are you even mentioning the first amendment of the United States Constitution, when we are talking about the EU? How is Dieudonné (French, condemned by a French court) concerned by it? What kind of mental milkshake do you suffer?
     
  16. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #17
    Freedom of speech does not cover; inciting violence, religious hatred, homophobia, and false accusations with no foundation. You can't just say whatever the hell you like, it's not as simple as that. You still have to be responsible for any defamatory comments you make. As others have said Hate Preachers are a good example of where freedom of speech crosses the line.
     
  17. sim667 macrumors 65816

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  18. Meister, Apr 13, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016

    Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #19
    I am pointing out that european countries do not have a first amendment which guarantees freedom of speech.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 13, 2016 ---
    You are proving my point...

    The first amendment is very clear.
    It does not allow exceptions just because of the petty feelings of the likes of yourself.

    Thank god for the founding fathers and their foresight!!
    --- Post Merged, Apr 13, 2016 ---
    No.

    Passing laws against free speech is the fascists choice.
     
  19. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #20
    So those scrappy men and women who decided to try the grand experiment that became America had a real bone to pick with England.
     
  20. zin macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Nothing to do with Europe. This is a German law that states you cannot insult a foreign head of state. Your title should be "The State of Germany in 2016", especially since the European Commission has already pressured them to change the laws.
     
  21. Meister, Apr 13, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016

    Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #22
    Many european countries have various laws that prohibit free speech in similar ways.

    I chose germany because I speak the language, it is by far the largest economy in the EU and this particular case made waves.
     
  22. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #23
    We fight for YOUR right to self determination.

    Elect your own government representatives and live with the laws they pass. If you don't like the law in your country, elect different officials who will change it.

    We do NOT fight to impress our laws upon your country.

    Thought that would be clear to everyone by now - otherwise the world would be just more US Territories and States... Though I know we are still called Imperialists by people who cannot understand what we really do.
     
  23. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    #24
    This isn't a European issue. It's a German one.
     
  24. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    Are you sure all that is correct? Everything I found on the net points to the contrary.
     

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