The state of europe in 2016: Obama woefully ignorant about Brexit

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Meister, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #1
    On his apology tour Barry played some golf in England and gave unqualified advice about the Brexit:

    "The European Union doesn’t moderate British influence – it magnifies it." - Barry

    Britain’s Armed Forces minister Penny Mordaunt:

    "Unfortunately this opinion betrays a woeful ignorance of the practical reality of the EU’s impact on our security, and the interests of the U.K. and the US. “Obama warned on Friday that divisions in Europe will weaken Nato, but often those divisions are caused by the EU itself. Obama confuses collective action and defence through Nato with the integration at all costs and damn the consequences ideology that too often motivates the EU."

    "The President must be unaware of the alarming weaknesses that allow Daesh terrorists to move unimpeded across Europe are the result of the EU’s bull-headed desire to take down all frontiers on the continent. Even in this country, although we are outside the Schengen borderless zone, European free movement rules mean we cannot keep out those we suspect wish us harm if it is based on incomplete evidence.” -
    Penny

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...wrong-about-the-eu-and-what-brexit-will-mean/

    They should probably give him another nobel prize for his foreign golf playing skills. :D
     
  2. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #2
    I think to be fair we're all (including economists) woefully ignorant about the consequences of both Brexit and also staying in.

    If Obama wanted to be truly honest then perhaps a Rumsfeld speech talking about known unknowns and unknown unknowns might have been better.

    I also think he should have made the point that the wrong people are being asked the wrong question... The UK positioning in the EU and the immigration debate is in my opinion something of a sideshow.

    There should be a referendum across the Euro zone (excluding the UK and Denmark - we're already out of that) re full blown integration. To avoid such a question by talking endlessly about making decisions through compromise and of solidarity is harking back to a zone that doesn't exist any more - an economic free trade zone. In such a zone decisions are easy as all nations get something financially. Everyone wins. (You want a farm deal - fine gives us a deal on financial services etc etc).

    The elephant, no the brontosaurs in the room is the Euro. Its adoption has meant we no longer have an economic area – we have an incomplete and flawed monetary union formed by 19 nations. The recent crisis should have forced the 19 Euro countries to pool both political and financial resources and yet what actually happened was that every attempt to find a way to share such resources has been postponed or abandoned. At the moment no nation within the Euro zone, is prepared to share another nations economic distress and yet they have a common currency and have surrended independent monetary policy. Its complete madness.

    Obama should be pulling every lever he can to pressurise the EU to resolve this one way or the other. Full blown integration or move back to an EEC type of group. The status quo in my opinion is really an unknown unknown.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many senior EU zone bods (apart from the Germans) would welcome a Brexit as it might provide the shock that is required to engage seriously with this. Us staying in might be good for the UK but a big problem for the EU.
     
  3. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #3
    Anti EU Tories being anti EU is hardly a shock.
     
  4. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #4
    Apology tour? What has he apologized for on this trip?
     
  5. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #5
    His golf skills[​IMG]
     
  6. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #6
    If that's all you got, then he must be doing pretty good. Though perhaps not at golf. :D
     
  7. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #7
    He's still taken far fewer than Bush... made far fewer executive orders, too. And as ffar as executive orders goes, he's not made any even remotely like REX84 or NSPD51/HSPD20... If you loathe Obama, your hatred of Bush must be as pure as freshly fallen snow just before a dog walks up to it...
     
  8. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #8
    Obama didn't prosecute Bush and continued the disaster in the middle east.

    They are as bad as each other.
     
  9. oscillatewildly macrumors 68000

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    #9
    Friends are temporary, self-interest is permanent. National leaders will speak for their nation's interests - no problem, it's their job. Also, probably not Obama here, politicians at all levels will play to a domestic audience to save/further their careers ; a French MP said this, German minister warns the other, blah, blah, blah. If the USA, Germany, and France felt it was better for them the UK leave the EU, the mouthpieces would be calling for the UK to leave.

    Cheers,
    OW
     
  10. Rossatron macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    i like the shoes :D
     
  11. Limey77 macrumors regular

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    #11
    Totally agree.

    You have to be amazed at the Brexiters. On one hand they say leave the EU and we'll negotiate a better deal with the US. Then the president of the US tells the bluntly that they won't, so they get their panties in a bunch that he commented on their fallacies. So disingenuous.
     
  12. Rossatron macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    yeah but considering obama's term is over soon, they might actually do get a better deal.
     
  13. Limey77 macrumors regular

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    #13
    They might. Just like a unicorn might dance over a rainbow crapping lots of gold - but I very much doubt it.

    When Hilary is president do you really believe that positions will change so much that the US' number one priority is to negotiate a trade deal with the UK that is worse for the US?
     
  14. oscillatewildly macrumors 68000

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    #14
    Remain and Leave are just flinging BS around, both are laughable. Pretty much find out for yourself.

    Being lazy:

    What is the current deal between the UK/EU and the USA? How long has it been in place? If a deal doesn't exist, are the parties negotiating? If yes, how far down the line are they? Do we have the gist of the deal? How is it viewed?

    Cheers,
    OW
     

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