The super-magical VP debate vs MR genius thread...

blackfox

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With nine hours-and-counting till the VP Debate between Cheney and Edwards, I thought I'd start this thread to discuss:

A. Premonitions of what will happen
B. What you'd like to see happen/be discussed
C. Likely/Smart strategies for each Candidate to take
D. Likely media response
E. Voter reaction
F. Effectiveness in overall Race.

Then later, we can all come back and pat ourselves on the back for being so smart or rationalize our way out of our mistakes. This in addition to Debate critique, of course...

I personally am looking forward to this one...
 

mischief

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Hmm...

Volatile egomaniac versus successful populist trial layer at the top of his game...

How long do you think it will take for Cheney to be cussing Edwards out and losing any coherent ability to talk?

I'll give it ten minutes. :D
 

blackfox

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something like this?
(esp. relevant to me w/ St. Helens right out the window...also, is it just me or is Edwards depicted as a Jimmy Carter look-alike?)
 

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mischief

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blackfox said:
something like this?
(esp. relevant to me w/ St. Helens right out the window...also, is it just me or is Edwards depicted as a Jimmy Carter look-alike?)
I thought he looked more like Robert Kennedy... particularly oce he opens his mouth (accent aside).
 

makisushi

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Jul 15, 2004
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blackfox said:
A. Premonitions of what will happen
I think that most of the questions will parallel the first presidential debate. Like a rehash.
blackfox said:
B. What you'd like to see happen/be discussed
I would like to hear some of the issues that Edwards feels is important, but I think it won't happen. I think that he will stick to John Kerry's agenda, and rightly so. I would also like to hear the VP's honest response for the kickbacks from hallaburton.
blackfox said:
C. Likely/Smart strategies for each Candidate to take
Cheney will be blunt, Edwards will be eloquent.
blackfox said:
D. Likely media response
no comment.
blackfox said:
E. Voter reaction
being that the race (according to the polls) is so close, that those who support kerry will think Edwards won and those who support Bush will think Cheney won.
blackfox said:
F. Effectiveness in overall Race.
I think it will have a noticable effect on how we view each campaign's platform. Especially if they talk about domestic issues. They haven't been brought up in the debates yet, and it will set the tone for the next tow presidential debates.
 

IJ Reilly

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Jul 16, 2002
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Well, it's a side-show the main event. It could be an interesting match-up because of the very different personal styles of the two men -- though honestly I doubt it.

Forecast: Cheney will try to paint Edwards as callow and inexperienced. He will mention trial lawyers at least twice. Edwards will attempt to corner Cheney on his remarks about terrorist threats being increased if Kerry gets elected, but he will successfully evade a direct answer. Edwards will mention the "two Americas" at least twice (which makes four Americas, please check my math).
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
smiley vs. mr. mumbles....it should be interesting.

i think cheney's got a tough evening ahead of him. iraq, job losses, a massive deficit...cheney had it easy during last election's debate. ntm, most houseplants have more charisma than joe lieberman.

cheney, of course, will try to portray edwards as the reason for tort reform and edwards will counter that he's proud of defending the little guy against sleazy corporations...such as halliburton.

edwards will directly discuss the issues while cheney will spout the same tired personal attacks as bush did. i can only hope edwards cites the blatant lies and misrepresentations of cheney during the last year...including his infamous " meet the press" fiasco..."we have found mobile biological labs" and " i can see how people associate 9/11 and saddam".

we may actually see cheney attempt to smile which will probably look more like a grimace.

i also expect cheney, if he's getting his butt kicked, to dramatically grab his chest, say something like " this debate is more important than my life or death" and go for the sympathy vote.

let's face it, edwards is young, likeable and looks like a kennedy. cheney looks like the grumpy rich uncle who gave you a crappy used and broken toy every christmas.

edwards wins it.
 

solvs

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Hm, a corrupt industrialist vs. a trial lawyer. I realize he represented that kid who lost half her intestines because of a known problem with pool filters when a corporation decided to "cut corners", but he's still a lawyer. Neccessary evil, I suppose. I see Halliburton brought up a few times, as well as Edwards inexperiance. Cheney will mention flip-flopping indirectly, and Edwards will throw it back at him. Cheney will try to focus on things Edwards doesn't know much about. Iraq, of course. A lot of Iraq. I'm hoping for a few surprises.
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
funny thing about lawyers:

everyone gripes about them....until they need one.

if either of my daughters were permanently injured by a product with a known hazardous defect, you can bet your ass i'd pursue all legal remedies within my means to send an unmistakable message to the maker of that product.

it's trial lawyers like edwards that coerce companies to change their strategies when deciding just how many injury settlements they can pay out before they improve their products.

or maybe i should just call some bloated overpaid CEO next time i need a representative to defend the health and welfare of my family. :rolleyes:
 

Roger1

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Jun 3, 2002
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3rdpath said:
let's face it, edwards is young, likeable and looks like a kennedy. cheney looks like the grumpy rich uncle who gave you a crappy used and broken toy every christmas.

edwards wins it.
LOL! Now that I think about it, that is so true!!! :p
 

solvs

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3rdpath said:
or maybe i should just call some bloated overpaid CEO next time i need a representative to defend the health and welfare of my family.
That's why I said neccessary evil, and related the story about who he defends. ;) He's still a lawyer. I appreciate they exist, like reporters, but I still have my qualms with the way most of them conduct business.

Watching the debate tonight, Edwards is doing pretty well. But Cheney isn't doing bad either.
 

mactastic

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Cheney's ahead on points IMO thus far. Although I am about 10 minutes behind live TV at this point.

Edwards looks like he's let Cheney rattle him a little. He needs to take some deep breaths and then let Dick have it.
 

IJ Reilly

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You think? I'm not an Edward fan by any means, but I'm impressed by the way he's been handling himself tonight. Cheney made a borderline personal attack on Edwards. That was kind of icky.
 

mactastic

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This is supposed to be ugly. This should be like watching two pit bulls fight to the death. Awful but compelling nonetheless. That's what VP's are supposed to do. Everyone knew Cheney would come with the personal attacks, Edwards needs to hit back just as hard. Halliburton Halliburton Hallicheney...

As it goes on Edwards is getting more comfortable, but you can tell he wants to get up and pace around the courtroom. This debate format definetly favors Cheney though.

Cheney defintely brought his A game tonight.
 

makisushi

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I am a little suprised at Edwards making faces while cheney is talking...it just comes off as immature.
I do think that both men have handled themselves pretty well.
 

zimv20

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Jul 18, 2002
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i'm turned off by both. i don't like the idea of using the time for question B to continue the discussion of question B.

- cheney started strong, making made edwards looked confused and inexperienced
- edwards found somewhat of a stride and has made some good counters
- cheney has reiterated points that edwards had already countered; i thought that reflected badly on him
- edwards i thought missed a lot of opportunities to make better points

of note:
- cheney's fascinating decision to not comment further on the gay marriage issue

- why the hell did edwards use that controversial $200 billion figure? he should have known the easiest way to counter his entire argument is to dispute that one fact
 

Thanatoast

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I give the win to Cheney. At least he actually answered the questions posed. Edwards didn't so much dodge as completely ignore some of the questions given by the moderator. He's trying to play the Republicans' game by staying on message, but he's sounding like Bush did last debate. Not quite that bad, but still.

I totally disagreed with Cheney's closing statement, but it came across very well. The conservative base will eat it up.

Edwards was the weak link in this debate, IMO.

Aargh.
 

zimv20

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another note:

cheney started off w/ a bang, associating 9/11, iraq, and a global WoTerror in almost one breath.

his closing was based on fear mongering. edwards closing was about hope. fwiw.