The system needs fixin'... Father to pay legal fees of protestors at sons funeral..


R.Perez

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2010
386
2,181
Philadelphia, PA
I hate to say this, but if you sue someone and lose you should have to pay.

What the group does is disgusting, but it is free speech.
 

eawmp1

macrumors 601
Feb 19, 2008
4,130
5
FL
1) Right: The groups ability to exercise free speech
2) Wrong: Their tactless way of doing it
3) Right: Court vacating the settlement
4) Right: Plaintiffs paying defendant's legal fees in setting of unsuccessful lawsuit

As 2 wrongs do not make a right, the hate group could do the decent thing to make amends by paying their own legal costs. However, I doubt decency is a characteristic they do not have, or they would have chosen a different venue at which to protest in the first place.
 

freeny

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Sep 27, 2005
2,065
5
Location: Location:
I hate to say this, but if you sue someone and lose you should have to pay.

What the group does is disgusting, but it is free speech.
Correct, but it should be fixed because freedom of speech was never intended to be exploited like this. The distance protestors need to be from a cemetary needs to be extended imo..
How about no protesting during the service?
 

GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,743
141
Whether right or wrong this is just sick. I feel badly for the father.
 

R.Perez

macrumors 6502
Feb 16, 2010
386
2,181
Philadelphia, PA
Correct, but it should be fixed because freedom of speech was never intended to be exploited like this. The distance protestors need to be from a cemetary needs to be extended imo..
How about no protesting during the service?
Distance maybe and I say that with a lot of trepidation.

No protesting during the service is just wrong.

Look I get it, I abhor these actions, but what you're talking about is a really slippery slope.

We need to protect crazy peoples rights to spew garbage so that when we have a legitimate concern about something we still have the ability to stand up and say something.
 

iBlue

macrumors Core
Mar 17, 2005
19,174
15
London, England
That's disgusting but I'm not surprised. All the Phelps family ever does is incite hatred in the name of free speech. It takes advantage of that right in the most despicable way. Really I think what they do borders on harassment and on a superficial level I wish something could be done to stop it/them. Though arguably that is a slippery slope. All anyone can and should really do is ignore their hatemongering. They feel vindicated when people get angry, if you deny them that, they may find it much less satisfying.
 

ucfgrad93

macrumors P6
Aug 17, 2007
17,543
8,166
Colorado
This is just sickening. Personally, I hope it makes it to the Supreme Court. Bill O'Reilly talked about this last night...

FoxNews.com said:
In another insane situation, the Westboro Baptist Church, which hates gay people and believes God is punishing America, won a victory in court. These disturbed souls from Westboro disrupt military funerals, so Albert Snyder of York, Pennsylvania, the father of a Marine killed in Iraq, sued the church for intentional infliction of emotional distress and invasion of privacy. Mr. Snyder won in the beginning and then lost on appeal, and incredibly, the court has ordered him to pay more than $16,000 in court costs to the Westboro people.

That is an outrage, and I will pay Mr. Snyder's obligation.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,590202,00.html
 

prostuff1

macrumors 65816
Jul 29, 2005
1,484
18
Don't step into the kawoosh...
That is just sad. No one should have to deal with people like that while you are trying to get through the funeral of your son. A father should NEVER outlive his son.

I had a relative that was killed over there and I went to the funeral. Had these people shown up all hell would have broken lose. Free speech be damned; I would have ended up spending the night (plus some extra time more than likely) sitting in a jail cell, but it would have been entirely worth it. A funeral is no place for something like this.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
As much as I can't stand Bill, this is a classy move.
Sorry, I don't agree. Westboro, while disgusting, has the right to freedom of speech. Bill O'Reilly, as usual, is on the wrong side of the issue, but good for him for paying it.

In the 80's, people tried to shut up gay people because they didn't like us. Just because we don't like something does not give us the right to gag the people saying it.
 

freeny

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Sep 27, 2005
2,065
5
Location: Location:
Sorry, I don't agree. Westboro, while disgusting, has the right to freedom of speech. Bill O'Reilly, as usual, is on the wrong side of the issue, but good for him for paying it.

In the 80's, people tried to shut up gay people because they didn't like us. Just because we don't like something does not give us the right to gag the people saying it.
I dont believe anyone is looking to "gag the people" here, just perhaps some respect while parents bury their children, gay, straight, black, white... whatever.
 

ucfgrad93

macrumors P6
Aug 17, 2007
17,543
8,166
Colorado
Sorry, I don't agree. Westboro, while disgusting, has the right to freedom of speech. Bill O'Reilly, as usual, is on the wrong side of the issue, but good for him for paying it.

In the 80's, people tried to shut up gay people because they didn't like us. Just because we don't like something does not give us the right to gag the people saying it.
I don't think that anyone is arguing that Westboro doesn't have the right to say the disgusting things that they say. However, they should not be allowed to say them at a funeral.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
I dont believe anyone is looking to "gag the people" here, just perhaps some respect while parents bury their children, gay, straight, black, white... whatever.
There is no law that states people cannot protest at a funeral. I doubt such a law would stand if made, either. The court made the right decision.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that Westboro doesn't have the right to say the disgusting things that they say. However, they should not be allowed to say them at a funeral.
Sorry, but I disagree. According to US law, they have every right.

Common decency says it's a horrible thing to do, but there is no law regarding common decency.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
This wasn't started as a free speech case, it was a case involving intentional infliction of emotional distress.

Cemetaries are not necessarily public property. Restricting speech is permissible if the time, place and manner of restriction is reasonable, and limiting this type of speech at a funeral would probably survive scrutiny. Unfortunately, no such law exists at this point.

+3 on the Bill O'Reilly paying the bill.

There is no reason that church couldn't say what it wanted to say without causing harm to families of soldiers.
 

niuniu

macrumors 68020
Yes. I'm assuming they did. They've been doing this a long time.
Then I'd be looking strongly at the relationship between the church and local government to see who signed off their protest, because that's a absurdity.




The law on free speech is right in my eyes, as is the right of the father and general public to be disgusted and disenfranchised with the law's seemingly absurd result. There's an idiot in the middle somewhere who let it come to this however. His head should be the one to roll.
 

MattSepeta

macrumors 65816
Jul 9, 2009
1,255
0
375th St. Y
Oh god

They should let Bill pay for it, then keep it out of the news. These morons want exposure more than they want their legal bill footed by the poor father. So I think it would be better to not give it to them.

If no one can see the problem, does it really exist?
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
Then I'd be looking strongly at the relationship between the church and local government to see who signed off their protest, because that's a absurdity.
As far as I know, they cannot be on church property. They were most likely across the street on public property. I know that has been ruled on already. Trust me, these people, as crazy as they are, operate within the law. They aren't stupid regarding that.

We may not like it, but this is part of what living in a free country means. There is no right not to be offended.