The U.S. GP Thread

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Just a quick one today... even though I missed posting for the last 2 races (for those not in the know, I've been sampling some of Bavaria's finest V10's myself ;)) qualifying has just finished and Trulli has nicked it for Toyota's first ever pole position.

However, the big news of the event, is that Michelin have requested that they be allowed to ship over new 'Barcelona' spec tyres for their teams, as they've admitted that it's unlikely that their current tyres will last the race distance.

Indeed such is the seriousness of the situation, Renault have already stated that they won't race with their current tyres, and BAR-Honda and Red Bull Racing are awaiting clarification with regards to their decision. Only McLaren seem happy with the tyre.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out, because Brundle speculated that they'd be in breach of around 5 regulations if the teams do swap rubber, which surely cannot go unpunished?

Funnily it comes only a couple of weeks after the FIA issued a statement to the teams warning that the tyres should be durable enough to complete a race distance, without safety concerns.

Qualifying

1. Trulli
2. Räikkönen
3. Button
4. Fisichella
5. Schumacher
6. Alonso
7. Barrichello
8. Sato.

That order might change though pending the outcome of the Michelin crisis.

Thoughts?
 

evoluzione

macrumors 68020
guess i'll be watching this one as i'm stateside...missed a race or two this season, saw some top stuff so far mind.

so how about some write ups about your test drives or whatever you've been up to eh???? or did i miss those already?

what exactly am i missing this year though, why is schuey not challenging for anything these days??


oh, and my bet is, kimi will win (or alonso) :)
 

barneygumble

macrumors 6502a
Apr 18, 2005
726
0
raikkonen for the win, probably first by the first corner, providing no mechanical failures. Now i have to stay up till 3:30 am to watch it
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
evoluzione said:
so how about some write ups about your test drives or whatever you've been up to eh???? or did i miss those already?
You haven't, I've not had time to write them up yet... in a nutshell it involved the new M5 :) but not the 'Ring though :(

evoluzione said:
what exactly am i missing this year though, why is schuey not challenging for anything these days??)
Several reasons... but basically rule changes designed at stopping their domination. Been that way since 2002.

barneygumble said:
Now i have to stay up till 3:30 am to watch it
I forget how bad it must be for you guys down their, I hate getting up early to watch the Aussie and Japanese GP, but you guys have to do that for a large chunk of the season, kudos. ;)

Anyway... Michelingate continues... at the moment their request for a temp chicane at Turn 13 has been turned down, as seemingly has their request to be allowed to use new 'Barcelona' spec tyres.

And rightly so IMHO.

ORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF MICHELIN IN INDIANAPOLIS AND THE FIA FORMULA ONE RACE DIRECTOR
19.06.2005

Letter from Representatives of Michelin to Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director:

Saturday June 18 2005
Indianapolis

Charlie Whiting, FIA Race Director and Safety delegate

Dear Mr Whiting

Having analysed and fully evaluated the tyre failures that have occurred over the Indianapolis Grand Prix practice sessions we have been unable to identify a root cause.

The current rules and timescale do not permit the use of an alternative tyre solution and the race must be performed with the qualifying tyres.

Michelin has in the sole interest of safety informed its partner teams that we do not have total assurance that all tyres that qualified the cars can be used unless the vehicle speed in turn 13 can be reduced.

Michelin very much regrets this situation, but has taken this decision after careful consideration and in the best interests of safety at the event.

We trust that the FIA can understand our position and we remain at your disposal if you want any further information.

Pierre Dupasquier
Michelin Motorsport Director

Nick Shorrock
Director of Michelin F1 activities

Cc:
Bernie Ecclestone
Michelin teams
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)


Letter from Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director, in reply to above letter from Representatives of Michelin:

19 June, 2005

Dear Mr Dupasquier,
Dear Mr Shorrock,

We have received your letter of 18 June.

We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen. As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur. It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in Turn 13. We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors.

Some of the teams have raised with us the possibility of running a tyre which was not used in qualifying. We have told them this would be a breach of the rules to be considered by the stewards. We believe the penalty would not be exclusion but would have to be heavy enough to ensure that no team was tempted to use qualifying tyres in the future.

Another possibility would be for the relevant teams repeatedly to change the affected tyre during the race (we understand you have told your teams the left rear is safe for a maximum of ten laps at full speed). If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail (thus for genuine safety reasons) and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty. If this meant using tyres additional to a teams’ allocation, the stewards would consider all the circumstances in deciding what penalty, if any, to apply.

Finally, it has been suggested that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13. I am sure you will appreciate that this is out of the question. To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie Whiting
FIA Formula One Race Director

cc: Bernie Ecclestone
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)
Jean Todt (Scuderia Ferrari)
Colin Kolles (Jordan Grand Prix)
Paul Stoddart (Minardi F1 Team)

Formula One Press Corps
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Original poster
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
I honestly can't believe the stance Michelin are taking on this... unbelievable. :mad: wanting to change the tyre specs or wanting the layout of the circuit changed and if the FIA don't, then they'll throw a paddy and won't compete... or in otherwords. Blackmail.

Rinky dink link
 

MacRy

macrumors 601
Apr 2, 2004
4,241
4,917
England
It is a bit childish of Michelin really isn't it. They've known about the problems awaiting them with the Indie track for months now and should have thought about it beforehand. Let's hope that it isn't just a six car race this afternoon though ;)
 

russed

macrumors 68000
Jan 16, 2004
1,613
0
how bizzare!

i know michelin are in trouble, but once again ferarri are being childish.
 

russed

macrumors 68000
Jan 16, 2004
1,613
0
Don't panic said:
???????
I can't believe you want to peg this on ferrari!!!
man, some people really WANT to be blind!
well to be honest, i cant actually watch it - we are having a thunder storm and all tv is off (bummer had better be back for top gear). i know it is michelins problem, but if ferarri had voted to put in a chicane in the last lap the race would have happened. surely there could have been some form of compromise - all bridgestone drivers start ahead of the michelins. there are about 150000 people there who have paid good money to see a race, one could have happend but ferarri were the only team to stop it happening at that point.
 

Leeloo the 5th

macrumors member
Apr 17, 2005
80
0
Belgium
MacRy said:
Let's hope that it isn't just a six car race this afternoon though ;)
Well it is! The public is angry and leaving, some are throwing garbage on the track. It isn't much of a competition, really...
 

russed

macrumors 68000
Jan 16, 2004
1,613
0
Leeloo the 5th said:
Well it is! The public is angry and leaving, some are throwing garbage on the track. It isn't much of a competition, really...
f1 has been getting stupid for a few years now. the politics is crazy and now this just takes the biscuit.
 

garybUK

Guest
Jun 3, 2002
1,466
2
Well because Bridgestone and associated with Firestone who supply tyres for the Indie cars... why should they have an advantage... why is it even being raced there on their stupid track?? there arn't any American teams in the race anyway.
 

dobbin

macrumors 6502a
Jan 28, 2002
587
5
England
Watching the ITV coverage - I can't understand why everyone seems to be blaming the FIA, Ferrari, the Michelin teams, Indianapolis circuit officials, the drivers, Ecclestone etc etc.

No-one seems to have a bad word to say about Michelin, who in my opinion are entirely responsible for the problem.

Michelin are paid millions to develop tyres for each race-track and they have got this one totally wrong. They should be compensating the teams, the spectators etc, but no-one seems to blame them at all. Martin Brundle is the worst - he doesn't seem to understand that this is serious sport and there are rules that have to be followed. They can't just change the rules or the track because Michelin messed up.

Or am I missing something?
 

Symtex

macrumors 6502a
Jan 27, 2005
515
2
I think Max Mosley is the one to blame. His lack of understanding the F1 motorsports and refusal to bend the rules to accomodate thousand of spectator who has paid hard working money on this event is the cause in all of this.
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,374
2,447
around the world
Symtex said:
I think Max Mosley is the one to blame. His lack of understanding the F1 motorsports and refusal to bend the rules to accomodate thousand of spectator who has paid hard working money on this event is the cause in all of this.
It is a very sad day for the sport and formula one. I am not sure why you blame Mosley.

But again - very very sad day for the sports and for everyone who went there and paid a lot of money.

:mad: :(
 

takao

macrumors 68040
Dec 25, 2003
3,825
432
Dornbirn (Austria)
i blame them all together.. michelin for the tyres, all the teams for not getting a agreement, the FIA who weren't able to prevent this farce and perhaps even the track itself...i mean a track who is in worse condition than normal streets ..

well at least the 3. austrian got his points this year... looks like that's a record for a century
 

Toeknee

macrumors regular
Sep 24, 2003
193
0
San Antonio, Texas
I watched it... just to see how the fans reacted at the end. I'd be pretty pissed if I paid $85-180 to watch a quality race just to see 6 cars (4 of which bring up the rear in the points) parade around a race track. I'd be asking for a refund... not sure if I would get it though. But I agree you do have to blame Michellin for the fiasco. Can't blame the Bridgestone teams for running nothing was wrong with their tires. Should be an interesting race in Magny-Cours as far a the points standings are concerned.
 

Veldek

macrumors 68000
Mar 29, 2003
1,790
1
Germany
Can anyone please answer my question? The teams wanted a chicane in the last lap to have less speed. Why didn't they just drive slower in this lap instead of blaming the raceway?
 

dobbin

macrumors 6502a
Jan 28, 2002
587
5
England
Don't get me wrong - I am sorry for the fans today - but $85 is cheap for F1.

Its £95 for the cheapest ticket at the British GP ($173.43)
 

dobbin

macrumors 6502a
Jan 28, 2002
587
5
England
Veldek said:
Can anyone please answer my question? The teams wanted a chicane in the last lap to have less speed. Why didn't they just drive slower in this lap instead of blaming the raceway?
It could be dangerous with the 6 bridgestone cars still going full speed.
 

Toeknee

macrumors regular
Sep 24, 2003
193
0
San Antonio, Texas
Well from what the Speed Channel said was that they wanted a chicane at turn 13 to slow the cars down. This would have stayed throughout the race. Teams also said that they would have 3 practice laps to get used to the track configuration but Trulli would not have been able to complete these 3 laps because he didn't have enough fuel. Talk about running light. :eek: And yes $85 is pretty cheap compared to other tracks (although this isn't really a track built for F1 just one built inside an oval) but its not cheap when you're a poor starving college student as I am. :) I was actually considering going to see this race too.