The VIRTUES of Donald Trump (not sarcastic here)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. PracticalMac, Nov 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016

    PracticalMac macrumors 68030


    Jan 22, 2009
    Houston, TX
    Anyone who reads my posts know I am critical of Trump, but I am not a blind "not Trump" follower.
    There are a few (too few) aspects of Trump that give me hope he can be a fair president (but recent events do concern me).

    1. He listens.
    Despite his ego and bombast, he does listen (but it needs to be face to face). This leads to next point.

    2. He is quick to change mind.
    This flexibility was what made him win election because he could adjust position to gain votes, and now in helping him set up to go in office as he has no qualms to dump some on spot.
    Past presidents had a habit of holding on to cabinet members who made serious mistakes. I hope Trump will not be as tolerant and fire them (of course there are some things he should not change his mind on easily).

    3. Business skills
    Despite everything, Trump is a successful businessman, especially in branding. Even if his liquid assets (cash on hand) is $0, his property wealth is huge, AND he has do manage a rather diverse set of holdings.

    4. Fast learner (maybe)
    It is a guess, but he seems to be quick at adapting to the situation. It makes sense given his success in the campaign (usually after making mistakes previously).

    5. Understanding labor (also a guess)
    I have a hunch despite what he said about illegals, he knows they represent cheap labor and do impact maintenance costs. After all, he recently scaled back on his deportation rhetoric to the criminal elements.

    6. No party loyalty.
    Trump as said over and over again he is his own man, is not tied by any favors, nor party loyalty. It was only recently he switched to being a Republican, but given some of his comments and actions, he certainly does not follow the Republican party line. Makes me wonder if there is secret plan to remove Trump.

    7. Drain the Swamp
    A major campaign promise was to end the party and influence pedaling out of Washington DC, end the log jam. I get this to mean regardless of which party or company. (I just hope he will across the board and not end up playing party favorites)

    8. His own agenda
    His support of LGBTQ right is a stark contrast to Republican stance on issue, and its not the only contrast. Also investing in infrastructure and protecting services that are not Republican agenda. I just hope he stays with his beliefs and not agree to everything his staff tell him.

    There is a LOT about Trump I am very concerned about and some of the recent events do concern me more, but I did see some decisions that do suggest an independent direction.
    I am not giving a Trump a pass (I was critical about Obama, not doing a thing about the NSA spy program or being timid about the middle east in general),
    but I will give Trump his chance.

    (PS: I am getting tired of all this post election bickering both ways. This is only hurting everyone. There are more productive ways to do things than shouting)
  2. Zenithal, Nov 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016

    Zenithal macrumors 603

    Sep 10, 2009
    7 isn't credible at this point looking at who he's been appointing. 8 also isn't credible with the people he's brought in. The repeal of DADT, DOMA and allowance of Same-Sex marriage are here to stay. A group will have to make one hell of a case to swing it the other way at the supreme court. The same case cannot be tried or any argument used. The argument has to be how it negatively affected the plaintiff(s). That isn't going to happen. What will happen is that laws that would allow non-heterosexuals to feel like normal humans wouldn't be passed that would have under a Clinton administration, overriding states with backwards laws. I could be wrong, but we very well might see certain states bringing forth a section 28 style law and the case plummeting in a conservative led Supreme Court IF the judges can't keep their personal agenda from influencing their decision.

    The biggest issues right now are encryption, 1st and 4th amendment rights, states rights, marijuana and other hot button issues. Trump is going to do jack about illegals. I know this. He knows this. Half of America with a brain knows this. Not only will it cost tax payers a fortune, it'll also be a logistical nightmare not to mention the increase in food prices. You can't sit there and tell me that (not you specifically) that a 16-year-old who is American by birth or citizenship would willingly work in fields during their freetime out of school or during the day (if homeschooled) for $12/hr let alone minimum wage.

    Donald is hardly a Republican. If anything, he's more in the center. Despite his rhetoric and sheer stupidity at times, the man knows how to game people and game the system. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. No one really knows how the next four years will work out. Uncertainty is based on his rhetoric of past months during the campaign. Fair dues of course, but really, who knows?

    I'm more cautious about the successful but sometimes not successful person who pretends to be an idiot when he isn't than an actual idiot who means harm.

    People soon forget the encroachment the Obama administration did on privacy, helping the copyright troll industry, prosecuting more whistleblowers, etc. than the Bush Administration, which followed the Clinton administration and so on. Trump's administration will likely continue the trend, and in four years people will either realize they'd been had or will conveniently forget everything.
  3. PracticalMac, Nov 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016

    PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030


    Jan 22, 2009
    Houston, TX
    Good points there, Zen.

    I agree what you said on my #7 and #8, but it still is early and things are still in flux.
    Mid Dec will give us a better idea of the direction.

    Hoping his view is wide and decisions measured.
  4. Uplift macrumors 6502

    Feb 1, 2011
    I'm starting to like Trump.. He was a laughing stock here in the UK, people can't believe some random guy off the TV with no political experience had a chance, well he actually won.. I think the lack of political experience is a massive positive for you guys[Americans]... as above, he's not in any other political pocket, has no political loyalties and he has other skills he can bring to the table that he learned in business, probably an excellent listener and negotiator. He probably also wont be driven by money.

    Not everyone will agree with every single decision he makes, but I do think he will do good for USA in a general sense... he has a lot to prove and will want to impress.

    Lets just hope he doesn't end up corrupt.
  5. Zenithal macrumors 603

    Sep 10, 2009
    People laughed at the twit Nigel Farage years ago because he was and I quote a contact of mine "A bloody loony" and look at him now. Then you have the daft Theresa May.
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Feb 2, 2009
    Toronto, Ontario
    On gay marriage Trump already said he wasn't going to touch it.

    I think he will resist going down the Republican rabbit hole by trying to mess with social issues like this and abortion, at the end of the day he is going to want to focus on building the economy, renegotiating deals, and making companies piss their pants about leaving the US.
  7. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030


    Jan 22, 2009
    Houston, TX
    Yes, that's what he said.
    And that goes against Rep efforts to end Gay marriage.
    Not an endorsement of Gay marriage by Trump, just an approval.
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    The voters have granted Trump his chance and he will get one.

    The only quibble I have about your OP is that most of it is purely speculative.

    Let him actually spend some time as president and let's see some results before passing judgement.
  9. aaronvan Suspended


    Dec 21, 2011
    República Cascadia
    Agreed. Trump may be many things but cultural warrior isn't one of them.
  10. vrDrew, Nov 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Jan 31, 2010
    Midlife, Midwest
    I think you're whistling in the graveyard.

    Trump's alleged business acumen or tolerance for gay marriage is about as relevant as Hitler's fondness for dogs and appreciation for classical music. He is a bad-tempered, ignorant, racist, old narcissist. One who values loyalty over competence and fundamental decency. And has surrounded himself with extremists and sycophants.

    Good luck with that.

  11. MacNut macrumors Core


    Jan 4, 2002
    Trump is so thin skinned that it will be his downfall. If his Twitter feed the past week is any indication of how he will govern it won't matter what good ideas he has.
  12. shyam09 macrumors 68020


    Oct 31, 2010
    That's one of the reasons why I don't like the current direction Trump's cabinet is headed. It just seems to be that he's going to surround himself with people who have tried to cozy up with him for whatever reason (I doubt the welfare of Americans was even in the top 10 for most of these people). These aren't people who are going to be critical of him, some of them are just "yes" henchmen.
  13. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502


    May 30, 2011
    Nothing to add....
  14. colourfastt macrumors 6502a


    Apr 7, 2009
    Nigel Farage is still a tosser. As for Theresa May, I think they dug around in the bottom of the rubbish bin until they found her.
  15. skunk macrumors G4


    Jun 29, 2002
    Republic of Ukistan
    I think that is exactly what he was saying...
  16. VulchR macrumors 68020


    Jun 8, 2009
    In my opinion the one thing that Trump has in the positive column is that he understood the anger and fear that many Americans have felt as the US has become almost a caste system. I think Bernie understood this as well, and it iwas a huge error he was not nominated IMO.

    The shame is that neither Trump nor Hillary united all the people who are desperate for change. For instance the unemployment rate for poor minorities is about 1% higher than the unemployment rate of uneducated whites who voted for Trump. Their interests align, but Republicans and Democrats did what they always do: divide the people with the most to gain from change.
  17. MacNut macrumors Core


    Jan 4, 2002
    Trump played on peoples fears. The problem is I don't see how he will or even cares to do anything about it. It was all a used car sales pitch to seal the deal.
  18. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816


    Feb 16, 2010
    Dayton, Ohio
    Nah, Bernie really only understood the young white segment of the population; you could see it in his policies, and in the crowds he drew. If he'd had a better argument for minority voters, he'd have beaten Clinton thoroughly in the primaries.
  19. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030


    Jan 22, 2009
    Houston, TX
    It is absolutely speculative.
    But you know what they say about people crazy like a fox, they can surprise you.


    ...despite his horrible rhetoric during the campaign (which is always worse then when one is in office), I have fingers crossed hoping he is more thoughtful and calculating in office. (not forgiving his actions and comment, though)

    I know, bunch of lap dogs.
    But things are in flux, have to see what the final lineup by January.

    Agree, we need uniters.
    It may take Jesus to do that given the deep divides and vicious rhetoric used by some members (and the media)
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    I'll see your animal metaphor and raise you with, "a leopard cannot change its spots."

    I fully expect Trump to display his deficiencies once in office.

    That's only partly speculative, having seen those faults displayed so many times these past months.
  21. Dagless macrumors Core


    Jan 18, 2005
    Fighting to stay in the EU
    I'm a sanguine type of person. Trump, as all people in that situation, would bring some positive new things to America. My first thoughts were he might be good for solving some world crises - if his bullish attitude continues into presidency. He might improve the economy.

    But there's a lot of doubt too. The way I saw it Clinton promised a lot of positive things, and a few negative things too. Trump seems to be inverted with that. Clinton's negatives would only affect the USA whilst Trump's (potential) warmongering ways might be too much and bring in further worldwide turmoil.

    And there's also the climate change denial which, well that's a huge negative.

    I'm interested to see what he does. And I'm happy that with his win he has the full house and senate because if anything goes wrong, if the poor angry people who voted for him aren't supported... well...
  22. Technarchy macrumors 604


    May 21, 2012
    I had high hopes for Obama initially. Likeable big time, coolest man alive, but all his first impression virtues turned to dust by the end.

    "Hope and Change," never happened.

    Who knows what the end of the Trump era will look like. Nothing like we expect right now most likely.
  23. McGiord macrumors 601


    Oct 5, 2003
    Dark Castle
    All other things listed are not virtues. Like most populists his only achievement is to be the most successful scam artist in US history, and he does make people manifest its worst side.
    When his scam is finally accepted by those who voted for him for whatever of these reasons:
    - abortion stance
    - immigration
    - economy
    - Jobs
    - Taxes
    - Hillary in jail
    - end elite corruption
    - Obamacare
    They will have no one else to blame but themselves because they were the only responsibles why they were scammed, they will be in denial and in their anger and frustration will look around to blame someone else: those whom were advertised by the agenda as the reason why "America lost its greatness".
    More dangerous than the politicians are those who blindly support them and empower them to divide the population, and fight for causes that generate anger, fear and retaliation.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 20, 2016 ---
    The economy will only have a false sense of improvement if they indeed invest in infrastructure construction and repair, what may be his main intention to distribute tax payer money in a circle of private contractors layered to pass audits, and scam tax payers as he had historically done. Those working on it may feel they have a purpose and stay employed, but with a significant side effect: the country will be in higher debt.
    Also if indeed all the trade agreements are impacted the prices of goods will significantly increase and inflation will be rampant.
  24. Zenithal macrumors 603

    Sep 10, 2009
    No, they'd still blame the liberals for their misfortune. Sorry, no, both the nutjobs on the Left and the Right would blame each other. Because that's what they've done with each president for a long time.
  25. Dagless macrumors Core


    Jan 18, 2005
    Fighting to stay in the EU
    I'm not so sure now. Because republicans have the lot this time around then there's no one else to blame. I imagine they'll try to blame the protests as some kind of limp excuse. Should be interesting.

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