The war on the middle class

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Dec 16, 2010.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Two articles which dovetail together pretty well:

    Article the first:

    Article the second:

    I don't know... Twenty years ago, would you have believed that our economy was on the verge of becoming Dickensian? That the rich would be getting so rich so fast that they're practically running away with the wealth, while the middle class are losing their wealth and joining the poor?

    I wish I could believe that things will get better, but with companies saying they're getting along fine without all those employees they laid off in 2008, with CEO bonuses getting even bigger, with a Congress that is bought and paid for and is, unsurprisingly, unable stop tax breaks for the wealthy, and with the incoming Congress determined to continue the war on the middle class...

    Do you think the end of the middle class is in sight? Will there be more and more of us dependent on the charities that 5P is always mentioning, and increasingly fewer of us able to support ourselves the traditional way, with a good job?

    Maybe I'm just feeling morose tonight, but all the economic and political news I've read since the election seems to be highly negative, to be bad news for average Americans who wants to work and support a family.

    And in January it becomes even worse.

    It's like, get used to this recession. It's not going to get better -- this is the new normal.

    I don't know...I've never felt so hopeless about my country....
     
  2. Biff... macrumors 6502a

    Biff...

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    #2
    Well if taxes aren't lower/kept the same you can kiss the middle class good buy.
     
  3. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #3
    Yeah, the middle class was bought off, that's for sure. But it wasn't a good buy. That's what happens when you support the wealthy instead of real Americans.
     
  4. Biff... macrumors 6502a

    Biff...

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    #4
    Don't know about you but all the support the wealthy have gotten, which includes the owner of my company has provided a job for me. A job in an economy with 9.8% unemployment, a job that supports my family, a job that will provide gifts for my kids this Christmas season. So if the owner of my company receives a few tax breaks, this real American thanks God for that lucky break.
     
  5. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #5
    The middle class always gets screwed. They do not make enough to get the breaks the rich get in terms of taxes but they make to much to get aid. I want to say the middle class tax burden is among the worse after you factor in all the breaks the rich are able to get to cheat out of taxes.

    Take away any detections and look at gross income vs tax paid and the middle seem to pay a larger chunk than they should.

    I really did not think that the rich should of kept their tax break and if anything I think we need to add a new tax bracket that is even higher to grab the mega rich.
     
  6. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #6
    I think you'll find paupers are more cost-effective. That's why the wealthy are always trying to turn the middle class into more of them… ah, I see what you did there. Carry on.
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    I think you mean good-bye.

    I'm not for sale.... last time I checked.
     
  8. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #8
    Makes me think of this old article from the Onion:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-poor-people-pretty-much-****ed,1025/

    While funny it rings a little too true these days.
     
  9. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #9
    Your link doesn't seem to be working. But It seems like a lot of the stories from the onion are becoming more and more realistic. I know I've read some articles on regular news sites, and thought that they should be from the Onion.
     
  10. Eraserhead, Dec 17, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2010

    Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #10
    Replace the stars with the f-word ;).
     
  11. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #11
    I thought the same thing. They'd scream bloody murder and claim that we'd be killing their incentive to create jobs, but they're not creating jobs anyway, so why not??
     
  12. SactoGuy18 macrumors 68030

    SactoGuy18

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    #12
    This is all the more reason why the USA--and indeed the entire world--needs to drop the current progressive income tax system with its myriad of complicated deductions and credits and start all over again with either going to a low-rate flat income tax (with only one generous initial household exemption as the ONLY deduction allowed) or dumping the income tax altogether in favor of a national consumption tax (something like the FairTax proposal that has been around for 11 years).

    At least here in the USA, such a change will mean no more spending HUNDREDS of billions of US dollars per year just to comply with the tax code (imagine for almost everyone American the tax form will only be one page long!) and American residents and businesses no longer need to "offshore" liquid assets, jobs, factories and even corporate headquarters beyond US borders just to cut down on the income tax bill.
     
  13. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #13
    More class warfare BS. When will liberals learn that there isn't one big pie that we're splitting up and that more for the rich equates to less for the rest of us.

    We can all become wealthier at the same time. Who gives a damn if those at the top get richer faster than those at the bottom. As long as we're all moving up and all getting more pie individually.

    It's petty. It's immature. It's class warfare at it's worse. This is America - not Russia, not China, not France. America. It's called the land of 'opportunity' for a reason... not the land of 'equal results' or the land of 'redistribution' for a reason. Take some personal responsibility and get over yourselves. Be glad that you live in such an amazing society where you can be generally healthy, prosperous, and safe. It's truly something special in the history of civilization.
     
  14. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #14
    Where would I find that in the Constitution?
     
  15. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #15
    I'd suggest looking first to the Declaration of Independence...

     
  16. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #16
    Thank you. I'm a strict interpreter of the Constitution and don't see the words 'land of opportunity'. Why do you insist on interpreting the Constitution your way?
     
  17. OutThere, Dec 17, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2010

    OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #17
    Wouldn't it be lovely if this were true? Our manpower, natural resources and ability to generate ideas places a number of limits on our ability to generate wealth. So at any given time we have a certain capacity as a nation to generate more wealth based on a variety of factors. It has been shown that for the past 40 or so years middle and working class wages have remained totally stagnant, while executive salaries have ballooned by several hundred percent. That sure doesn't sound like everyone getting richer at the same time, it sounds like the rich increasing their share of a zero sum pie of wealth.

    Before we start throwing around things like "it's truly something special in the history of civilization" let's consider the fact that numerous European nations are understood to have better human development/standards of living than America. The teachings of the "American dream" serve little more than to create this petty, immature class warfare that you so decry. Can you expect more from millions of people who have been told all their lives that they live in the "land of opportunity" and that if they work hard enough anything is possible? These are the same millions of people who can't get jobs while corporations post record profits, while executives take home multimillion dollar salaries, while health premiums rise shockingly but the CEO accepts nothing less than $14 million. And you expect these people to take personal responsibility? How about we take some responsibility for our fellow citizens, so that—united—we can succeed as Americans, for divided as we are today we shall surely falter.

    PS: Where were you to decry class warfare when the Tea Party has so often railed against intellectual and political elites?
     
  18. IntelliUser macrumors 6502

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    #18
    United? By holding the rich unjustly responsible for the poor? By condoning class warfare? Please. :rolleyes:

    Stop envying the rich and move on with your own life.
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    God- the histrionics. No on is holding anyone responsible for the poor. We have big debts and crumbling infrastructure. Education needs to be improved. If we do not address these problems, and soon- we will collapse as a society. It's already beginning to happen, but you guys are too busy talking abut how the rich need more money to see it. It really is sad to watch. So we just take more money out of the government and watch all these things suffer all while accruing more debt. You guys claim fiscal responsibility, but have no trouble pushing debt onto the backs of your own children.

    The rich are not creating jobs anymore, they're shipping them overseas. There is no trickle down Reaganomics happening. Where were the jobs the whole time they had these tax cuts? Tell me.
     
  20. Queso macrumors G4

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    #20
    I disagree. The planet isn't getting any bigger and all the space and resources are already claimed. The only way Americans can become wealthier en masse now is at the expense of other nationalities.

    Unless you talk in cash terms of course, but as has become increasingly clear over the past few years cash has no real value unless there are real assets behind it. And when the pie of available assets cannot grow it means that if someone gains a bigger share of it someone else has to lose out.
     
  21. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #21
    Iraq and Afghanistan. Please pay attention.
     
  22. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #22
    I'm shocked that I have to explain this, but the "pie" people have referred to, is not a real pie, it's a pie chart.

    In a pie chart, the size of the pie slice is a percentage. The size of the pie can be no larger than 100%. Now, can the something that the 100% refers to become larger or smaller, yes, but the pie itself is a visual way of explaining relative percentages. The change in slice size is the dirivitive, and what liberals are talking about is the dirivitive value and how it is changing. In other words, the size of the slice of wealth controlled by the top 1% is growing, and it is growing at a faster rate.

    So, this isn't about liberals and conservatives, but Math 101.
     
  23. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #23
    If "rich people" want to believe that they dont need to "man-up" and pay a fair share of living in this country where they were able to become so rich...then so be it.

    When the economy collapses, roads deteriorate and everything bad that goes wrong when you ignore your own personal responsibility of living within a society such as ours...the rich wont have anyone left to fix it since they dont pick up shovels and hammers.

    This BS liberal vs conservative definition of "class warfare" is beyond ridiculous.

    Thats just a smokescreen to divert attention from "rich people" basically ignoring their duty to keep the country they so love, from imploding.

    Complaining they are taking another $10k from your windfall investments when you walk away with a cool $100k...makes you look like a jerk, not someone standing up for "keeping the money I earned rightly".

    You live in a society which has taxes. Those taxes need to be paid, the amounts have to add up or the budget goes into the red. When that happens, ***** hits the fan as we are all seeing across the board in every state. "Paying your fair share" is not another word for "stealing from the rich", and if you try and make it seem so, you are not very American at all.
     
  24. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #24
    The American Dream used to be to work hard, provide for your family, and then if you were lucky and worked really hard, you might become wealthy and have all the benefits (and responsibilities - including paying higher taxes). Now, the GOP thinks the American Dream is that you must work hard, harder still if you want to provide for a family, and if you are lucky to have wealthy parents or somehow strike it rich with a great idea, or work hard and get into a lucrative field, then you get all the benefits and none of the responsibilities (including not paying higher taxes).
     
  25. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #25
    Says the class war warrior.
     

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