The woman who can't prove she's American- or even exists.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iBlazed, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #1
    This is a pretty crazy story and I really feel for her. One of the byproducts of fundamentalist Christianity and extremist right wing anti-government views. "Identity abuse" is a very fitting term for this woman's situation.

     
  2. skottichan macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

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    #2
    Sadly, this isn't just Right-Wing crazies doing this.

    I have an acquaintance, he and his GF are far left wing neo-anarchists, and they're raising their two children like this. Both children were born at home with the help of a mid-wife (his mother), and neither children have SS#'s or birth certificates. They're planning on home schooling.
     
  3. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #3
    In my opinion, that's child abuse.
     
  4. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #4
    It's really unfair of them to force that on their children. I can understand if they wish to homeschool their children, but the lack of records has the potential to make their child's life harder later on by denying them the option to forego the lifestyle of their parents.
     
  5. skottichan macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

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    #5
    Mine too. I and others have called children' services, but apparently in rural Ohio it's within the parents' rights.

    I wholly agree. It boggles me how people can think it's okay to do that their kids.
     
  6. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #6
    irresponsible...... possibly.

    Child abuse....... no
     
  7. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #7
    How is it not abuse to strip your child of every form of official identification and make it damn near impossible for them to be able to live a life outside their parents home when they become adults without undergoing costly litigation to establish that they even exist? Every child born should have the right to an official identity.
     
  8. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #8
    It's not a big deal. I don't exist either. I am a very sophisticated spambot.
     
  9. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #9
    Your AI is still rudimentary, though.
     
  10. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #10
    You are just jealous because you didn't write me :p
     
  11. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #11
    Child abuse doesn't have to be physical. Here's a list of things she can't get:

    Drivers license
    Job
    College education
    Bank account
    Mortgage
    Passport
    Voter registration

    Without being able to prove her citizenship, she will live a very difficult, tough life all thanks to her ****** parents.
     
  12. Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

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    #12
    This is really a reflection of the times. Granted I don't know cause Ive never looked into it, but if the parents were reasonable, the daughter should be able to go back to where she grew up, get testaments from her parents, maybe the midwife if she is still around, someone she knows, agree to a DNA test for comparison with her parents and the county should be willing to move forward from there. But who knows?
     
  13. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #13
    The quotes cited in the OP's post seem to make it clear that the parents have no intention of giving any assistance to their daughter on this matter.

    A very sad case, and yes, I'd have to agree completely with both skottichan and iBlazed on this; whatever about your own views and perspectives on such matters, to seek to deprive your child of the possibility of integrating and living in mainstream society does strike me as an example of what might be classed as child abuse.

     
  14. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #14
    The fact that this happened in a super conservative Christian family with home schooling in Texas, just doesn't surprise me. Nope, doesn't surprise me at all. Wackos.

    People who homeschool their kids are weird.
     
  15. noodlemanc macrumors regular

    noodlemanc

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    #15
    Yeah, coz everyone's the same and if you don't like or do well in school there must be something wrong with you.
     
  16. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #16
    Homeschooling is the provenance of preppers, survivalists, ultra right wing conservatives, religious weirdos. Yup.
     
  17. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #17
    That's one of those "sometimes, but not always" things. I know someone who, due to various health issues, can't work, and ended up moving around a bit. He ended up homeschooling his kids alongside a group of people, and they all make it seem like it'd be a good idea. While he also goes by the curriculum set by the government, he also takes them out to places of businesses to interview the managers, goes to museums, and all kinds of neat stuff. They end up getting a lot more indepth and hands on with their subjects than kids who go to public or private schools usually do.

    While homeschooling can be used by some very irresponsible/crazy people to indoctrinate their children, keeping them separated from society, it's not always a bad thing. It can sometimes be a better alternative.
     
  18. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #18
    I don't agree with you that it's sometimes a better alternative. I think kids need to exposed to the rest of society at large in a classroom environment, outside of the home, and not sheltered up with their parents and siblings or some small insular group. And as far as the museums and the like, that's what filed trips are for. When I was a kid I went on many. I think homeschooling should only be allowed in rare, specific cases, not just because "that's what I want to to do."

    P.S. And none of this charter school ************ either. Or vouchers.
     
  19. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #19
    It's not nearly as bad as you'd think it'd be. They meet up and play with all the kids in their neighborhood, and by association, meet all those kids friends from school. They end up going to birthday parties, sleepovers, and all that usual stuff, so it's not like they're entirely isolated. For them, it's like hanging out with friends that go to another school.

    Yeah, they're missing out on some things here and there, but it's hardly anything that'll stunt them emotionally.

    Now it's true that homeschooling isn't something I'd consider a universally good idea. For one thing, this guy and his wife are pretty intelligent, levelheaded people. Not everyone is capable of their teaching their own kids academically as well as they are. But on that same note, it's not something I'd dismiss entirely as a concept, either. It isn't always a good thing, but it can be in the right hands.
     
  20. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #20
    Before the thread descends into a polemic on the strengths (debatable) or weaknesses of homeschooling, allow me to suggest that there are - or may be - two separate - but over-lapping - issues under discussion here.

    One is home schooling, and whether or not it is - or can be - of benefit or not to the child. In, and of, itself, home schooling need not harm the child.

    However, the second issue here is one that ought to concern people, and it arises out of the attitudes which gave rise to the choice of the parents to insist on home schooling for their children.

    This second issue is the refusal of the parents in this instance to register the birth of the child, and their refusal to engage with the state's bureaucracy in any way whatsoever on behalf of the child, due to their refusal to recognise that the they ought to have anything to do with the state and its offices and organs. Their refusal to acknowledge, or engage with the state has had the consequence that this youngster has no legal existence or status or agency from the perspective of the State.

    That is an enormous problem for the youngster in question, and is clearly one where her rights have been negated and subordinated to the political beliefs of her parents. The question of homeschooling is but a part of the wider issue which is the right to a legal identity in order to function as a citizen.
     
  21. Meister, Feb 14, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015

    Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #21
    Parents always make choices for their children. They do what they deem best.
    I think people are blowing this out of proportion.
    There is certainly a way to get a social security card, birth certificate and passport in retro.
    I've dealt with many refugees and they were always provided with new documents despite the complete lack of records.

    I think the parents decision is somewhat thoughtfull because they are leaving the choice up to their child.
     
  22. Technarchy, Feb 14, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015

    Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #22
    In the event you ever have kids to raise let me stick them in some of these schools in East New York, Bushwick and Brownsville and see if your tune doesn't change.
     
  23. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #23

    That's not abusive, that's irresponsible. Abuse is tormenting someone emotionally, psychologically or physically.

    It will get sorted, it'll just be a logistical nightmare
     
  24. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    #24
    Its also a little weird to call your child "Apple" or "Orange" but people do it all the time.
     
  25. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #25

    The same could be said into forcing them into societal conventions, when actually they may not wish that to be case when they're older.

    In the grand scheme of things because someone can't instantly got into the parameters of what you see as the norm, it's not exactly the end of the world. It's paperwork, there's nothing in changeable about paperwork once the legal loopholes have been jumped through. It's if the authorities choose not to guide her through the process then it becomes a travesty and reflects the failings of both the parents and the system.

    However it is not child abuse, it could be considered irresponsible, or possibly neglectful, but not intentionally abusive. There's a very clear definition between abusive and neglectful ;)
     

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