Theft, Fraud and Defeat

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by OldCorpse, May 14, 2007.

  1. OldCorpse macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #1
  2. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #2
    I've seen about 30 minutes of it now. Disgraceful. Iraq is such a cluster****. It's amazing how much damage the maniacs running the country have been able to cause in such a relatively short period of time, and horrifying to think how terribly they've ruined any chances for peace, progress, stability and democracy.

    I fear this nation will never recover from the disaster of 6 years of neoconservative Republican federal autocracy, and that the Bush years will eventually be seen as the match strike that eventually burned down the country.
     
  3. OldCorpse thread starter macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #4
    Edit: retracted in reaction to Chef Medeski's retraction.
     
  4. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #5
    Well said.
     
  5. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #6
    Fair enough, I retract my comment as being brash and under studied. Well said. And I agree with you. Comment formally removed.
     
  6. OldCorpse thread starter macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #7
    It is an uncommon sign of wisdom and honesty to change one's mind as a result of studying facts and arguments, especially in online discussion boards. I'll follow your comments here as worthy of reading because of who wrote them - and I don't do this lightly - you've earned that right, for me. I'm sure we won't always agree - but I'll always carefully consider your opinion.
     
  7. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #8
    That sir, is the slam-dunk post of an intelligent, learned person!
     
  8. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #9
    The Bush Dynasty is one of those elite entities that has always profited
    from the misery of others.

    Prescott Bush made his fortune from military contracts and the related
    stock investments.

    This family and their kind,
    are very much what Eisenhower was warning us about after World War II
     
  9. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #10
    OldCorpse,

    First of all, I thank you for bringing this, and several other worthwhile readings/viewings, forward. I hope you will continue to do so.

    I am a Vietnam combat veteran. I spent my 19th, 20th and 21st birthdays in the Mekong Delta. I thought I had seen it all. This video even surprises me. I did not think that was possible.

    My friends and I mostly felt our Country had sent us to that forsaken place, and abandoned us. Our goal was simple; protect each other and come home alive. We were aware of the private profiteering, but it was nowhere near the scale of what is going on in Iraq.

    If this does not warrant an independent special prosecutor, I am at a loss to understand WHY! If the allegations raised in this story are true, the number of US federal, and International crimes committed are staggering. How can America live with the shame of what has gone on here? We are told to "Support Our Troops". Well, what good citizen would not do that? Of course we support the young men and women who find themselves in the same damn situation all American combatants have been in.

    But, with each dirty, under-handed, illegal and immoral act committed by our government (and by the 'second' government), we dishonor them and their sacrifices!

    We absolutely need to begin prosecuting the guilty. Cheney would be a good start. Has America ever produced a more despicable person? I cannot understand how he graduated from high school. He is about as loathsome a person as I have ever seen. I suspect, the powers who put Bush into office, put Cheney there to keep GW from being assassinated.
     
  10. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #11
    You are absolutely correct. In his farewell address to the nation, Eisenhower warned American of the proliferation of the Military-Industrial-Complex. As I recall, he said it was one of our greatest threats.
     
  11. Lixivial macrumors 6502a

    Lixivial

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    #12
    I think the documentary speaks well enough for itself. Thank you for sharing it, OldCorpse. I usually try to avoid this area of the forums as much as possible, but this video forced a response. When I see these things it gives me so much pause during the day and I always feel helpless when contemplating it.

    It's a surreal state of affairs that these war criminals are still employed at these companies. Still employing these policies, and still being paid entirely to continue these grotesque operations. Why aren't they rotting in Gitmo?

    I often wonder how people such as these can actually live with themselves and what level of depravity is required to harbor this level of corruption. It just completely boggles my mind and, to me, is some sort of alternate reality. I can't fathom it, other than to say that evil truly does exist in this world and it's closer than many in this country like to think.

    It's just... disheartening.
     
  12. OldCorpse thread starter macrumors 65816

    OldCorpse

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    #13
    Thank you for your kind words. That said, we probably won't agree all of the time, so I better put my cards on the table: I am not a pacifist. I believe there are just wars which are not purely defensive (for example, we should have confronted Hitler the moment he invaded the Cheks in 1938). I believe in a strong military. I do believe there are better and worse cultures - and so far, I believe, that while horribly flawed, Western culture and democracy are the best civilization has to offer. That said, I don't believe in imposing our culture/economic-political system through the military (unless we or our allies are attacked unjustly). The Iraq war is a staggering example of all that his criminally wrong with our system and the gangsters who have hijacked our country.

    Truth demands that we never forget that the Vietnam fiasco was started by a Democratic president and expanded by another Democratic president. Sadly, we can't blame just Republicans for all unjust and horrific wars that were started by our country. Of course, Iraq 2 is in a class by itself, and is so far outside of anything we've so far dealt with, that really we must question the very foundations of this country... if our constitution can so easily be circimvented, and there are no consequences for the criminals responsible, what hope is there for our future - are we doomed like Rome was doomed?

    Hard to add anything to this :)
     
  13. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #14
    We must not forget that Kennedy was hell bent on getting our troops
    out of Vietnam and had planned to begin the process by Christmas the very same year he was assassinated.

    There are many theories as to who was actually behind his assassination,
    but no other motive can compare to how many billions of dollars were at stake for military related investors, if the war were to have ended early.

    My father who worked with the Inspector General's Group at the Pentagon,
    was totally convinced that this was the real reason both Kennedy's were killed.
    One for messing up their lucrative war plan and the other for threat of prosecution.

    There is most definitely a shadow government pulling strings to keep
    those profits rolling in.

    Take a look at this chart put together by Wolfowitz as part of his presentation to the PNAC. Do you see a motive here. I certainly do.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. MACDRIVE macrumors 68000

    MACDRIVE

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    #15
    Edit: retracted in reaction to Chef Medeski's retraction and in reaction to OldCorpes's retraction.
     
  15. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #16
    I haven't forgotten.
     
  16. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #17
    Try to imagine how attitudes towards this war would change if Congress
    re-instated a draft lottery where anyone's son or daughter could be called
    up.

    That really is the test.

    As a nation, do we believe in this fight strongly enough to send our own children into battle?

    I hear all these arguments about a volunteer army. "Well they volunteered"

    They volunteered to serve and protect our country, not to be used as expendable pawns in a corporate exploit for natural resources and profiteering by defense contractors.
     
  17. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #18
    Thank you gentlemen for understanding. Clearly the post was written at an inoppurtune time of the night. And I really would hate to start a debate I cannot fully back up.
     
  18. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #19
    Technically anyone who voted for this war or supported it. Should be alright with the draft and they should be the firsts to "enlist" their children. I didnt believe to going to war, but now that we are there, we can either finish the job by increased presence. Or we can use some unconventional politics to try to get other regional allies and the UN involved (i merely say unconventional because Bush would have to give up his facade. Almost plea for help and actually ask Iran for help). Unlikely but I really dont see any other way to do it beyond those two. And clearly if Bush or even most Americans won't turn a 180 and ask for help (they are more willing to just flat out pull the troops out and really screw over the Iraqis), it really isnt fair to the Iraqis. They had a fairly stable country that you come in and rape. And then just leave. Ive heard of first world countries treating third world countries bad but come on. Anyone who supported going has to follow through with their words. They wanted war and they cant just get out of it because now the going is tough.
     
  19. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #20
    That's just it.

    "WE" need to send in 200,000++ more troops, but who is WE?

    It's someone else's kid, someone else's husband or father or loved one.

    Sure they can hire professional's for $120,000-$250,000 per year, but
    that's not who we're talking about here.
     
  20. Chef Medeski macrumors 6502a

    Chef Medeski

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    #21
    I never said we should. Just that its the only option if Bush doesnt want to be a man and come to terms with reality. But since the whole country back Bush into War, then theoretically as a whole nation we should go if he needs troops. I mean I didnt vote or support the war but you know there is sometimes when you need realize when its all our faults and we have to finish the job. And I think it would be a great way to put pressure on Bush to change the course. Heres a timetable for instutiting the draft, if you dont fix the war in that time. We will institute it. And that means talking to the UN. Backing down. Whatever you want. But you have to fix it. Withdrawal I think is not very fair for the Iraqis.
     

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