There are "sensitive electronics" in my passport!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Jade Cambell, Dec 22, 2007.

  1. Jade Cambell macrumors 6502

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    #1
    "This document contains sensitive electronics. For best performance, do not bend, perforate or expose to extreme temperatures."

    This is printed on the last page of my recently renewed passport. Obviously, the "sensitive electronics" is the RFID, (Radio Frequency Identification). I saw this video on youtube, http://youtube.com/watch?v=vKnwQKWeFUM and was very dubious about most of it since it seemed unrealistic and overly dramatic, like something out of a sci-fi movie or something.

    However, I then went to check my passport, and sure enough it's got a RFID chip in it. I wouldn't like to believe that my government is going to become my enemy within the next decade, but i'd also like to know exactly why they would put that chip in my passport, if not for the reasons stated in that video.

    For those who didn't watch the video, basically our government has supposedly signed an agreement with Canada and Mexico, to form a North American Union, which will join with four other Union's of the world to form a global dictatorship government. People will WANT to have these RFID chips surgically implanted in their bodies for "security," and if you misbehave, they can shut down your chip, basically cutting you out of society, since you'll need it for everything.

    Where is this going? Why is there a Radio Frequency Identification device in my passport??
     
  2. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #2
    probably to keep track of where you go.

    but ill be damned if get one inserted in me. talk about the mark of the beast....
     
  3. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #3
    All the new passports will have the RFID chip in them. its called e-passport.

    http://travel.state.gov/passport/eppt/eppt_2498.html

    Actually I can't wait until mine expires so I can get one. It'll probably make it easier at customs.

    LOL @ "mark of the beast"
     
  4. Jade Cambell thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #4
    So they can't track me using that chip? It doesn't have GPS?
     
  5. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #5
    Dude. Open up your eyes. RFID was sent by the devil to destroy us.
     
  6. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #6
    well more likely get scanned at airports and stuff and creats a log
     
  7. Jade Cambell thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Okay. Obviously, if the government was putting something in our passports that we wouldn't want to have, they wouldn't be telling us about it! They can say "This is to make it more secure," when really it's for them to take over the world.

    If there is an evil intention behind it, they wouldn't let us know about it. And all of you seem to be very sure that America is your friend. So can someone with some more credible information about this explain to me exactly why they put the chip in my passport, and if there is any way of knowing that we know everything about it?
     
  8. EricNau Moderator emeritus

    EricNau

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    #8
    That video is a bunch of Bull****. I could go through it bit by bit and explain why each and every second is based upon a logical fallacy or pure fabrication (or who knows what else) but it would be a waste of my time. Let's just say they lost my support within the first second.

    It's nothing more than an attempt to use scare tactics to intimidate the public into believing their crap.

    Those people most likely also believe in Big Foot, alien abductions, every conspiracy imaginable, and even the Boogie-Man; in other words, they're about as crazy as they come.

    There a plenty of legitimate arguments for the usefulness of RFID chips in passports. These chips can contain your info in digital form (such as photos or fingerprints), so it can be uploaded to a custom agent's computer at the time of your transaction. This is useful because your fingerprint or photo can be automatically compared to the data on your passport to determine if you are the correct person. This dramatically limits the possibilities of false passports.

    Absolutely not. Although, the governments can track you based upon the countries where you use your passport, but they can do that without an RFID chip, and this of course is the entire purpose of a Passport.
     
  9. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #9
    im more concerned with the potential of the technology. of course no govt in their right mind would say its for evil. they play off fears (aka terrorism) to get public support

    then enact more and more laws that chip away personal rights for "safety" purposes

    will be interesting to see what happens in future.

    i just wont put anything past government. then again i believe in little govt
     
  10. xsedrinam macrumors 601

    xsedrinam

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    #10
    My son just got a new one to come down for the holidays.
    Bar code on the inside of back cover. The cover is noticeably thicker. Front and inside cover page look like this.
     

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  11. r.j.s Moderator emeritus

    r.j.s

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    #11
    Doesnt anybody do any research before making claims. RFID only works over very short distances - so if the government is tracking you using it, they are also following you very closley. My work building keycard is RFID and it needs to be within an inch of the scanner to be read. RFID and GPS are not even remotely related.
     
  12. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #12
    If you're that concerned about the RFID in your passport, you should abandon all your credit cards, driver's license, cell phone, and only use corded pay-phones for the remainder of your life. As often as most people use their passport much better information on tracking your movements would be done via those other methods. And if you're that concerned about the possibility of using the RFID for tracking you take the static bag from the next piece of computer hardware you buy and carry the passport around in that, it will provide a pretty good shield from external RF signals.
     
  13. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #13
    An RFID responds to a query much as the bar code scanner works in a store. Gotta be really close to the reader.

    As far as the feds knowing where anybody is, tracking credit card purchases or discerning which cell-phone towers are engaged will give nearly-real-time info as to one's whereabouts. They gotta work through the credit card company or the phone company to do that...

    Once a border crossing point is passed, the passport doesn't say diddly-boo to anybody about anything. It's not a transmitter.

    Then again, maybe Elvis knows something I don't. Probably so; Bigfoot told him.

    :), 'Rat
     
  14. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #14
    And of course we all know they couldn't listen into our phone conversations and records without a warrant and probable cause.
     
  15. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #15
    of course;)
     
  16. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #16
    There are plenty of real things to be paranoid about, this isn't really one of them. They can already track you if they wanted to. And do. Preferably with a warrant or other oversight, but as alluded to, sometimes not. That's what you should be worried about.

    And no, no GPS.
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    The fact that no facial recognition technology actually works, returning false identification more often than not, should give us all cause for concern.
     
  18. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #18
    No worries, I just wear this.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #19
    Now now, we needn't get too sarcastic. Jade has some legitimate concerns, even if they are pointed in the wrong direction.

    Since it's not possible to get these crackpot videos off the internet, we really need to dissuade people from watching them. The dangers they warn about are usually oversimplified, magnified, or fabricated from vague "facts". (Remember the "missiles" secured under the planes that hit the WTC, that turned out to be landing gear doors?)

    There are more likely things to be worried about, such as this administration's ability to tap into almost any voice or data transmission at any time, with the willing cooperation of the telecoms.

    Then again, while RFIDs and the North American Union may not present any immediate threat, you know that a combination of commerce, idealogy and technology can always find a way to use those things to our detriment in the future. RFIDs may not be globally-trackable now, but you know that won't always be the case. Someone, at some point, will find a way to implement it, and a rationale for doing so.

    As far as the NAU and its brethren becoming threats...well, they are economic entities now, but it's not impossible that they could mutate into something more than that.

    There are two primary trends in the world today: one is globalization (which includes the continual merging and "internationalization" of companies); the other is the rise of corporate influence in politics. While I don't feel that either are working towards a world-wide dictatorship today, it's not hard to argue that they are setting the stage for the world to become some kind of unified, economic entity in the future, even if it's a hundred years or more hence.

    I have to admit, I'm not crazy, however remote or distant, about the possibility of a one-world government, whether is based on economics or politics. If you don't like it, where do you go?
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #20
    There are legitimate concerns about the chip being open to hackers. The prudent will carry their passport in a tin foil lined pouch. I'm serious.

    The Brits have had these for awhile and more than a few of them have, supposedly, accidentally put them in the microwave for a few seconds. It doesn't take much to kill a chip. The question is, how will those people whose passport's RFID chips been incapacitated be treated at customs? At this point, the RFID chip is mostly treated as an extra, but at some point in the future, if your chip isn't working, you'll probably be denied entry.

    As far as the video, it's a bunch of bs.

    It also won't be long before hackers use the chip for their own nefarious purposes. Passports and official government documents have always been a prime target for falsification. In the end, it's a zero sum game.
     
  21. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #21
    I think the point is that there are much more effective methods to track your movements than your passport, so a chip in the passport should be of less concern than credit cards and cell phones. Given their recent record I wouldn't put it past them to be using this data without warrants, but unless your going to give up your cell phones and credit cards, your concern over the passport chip is placed in the wrong threat.
     
  22. EricNau Moderator emeritus

    EricNau

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    #22
    ...Yet. Keep in mind, passport RFID is still in implementation stages, and at this point is only included in current passports for future use.
     
  23. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #23
    A barcode reader requires very close proximity because it actually needs to see the UPC footprint. The anti-theft readers do not need that capability, and as you stated, most have very short range. But, that is a component of cost. It is possible to install a system that has much greater range. For example, my company has two warehouses and two storage yards (for heavy equipment). It is important for us to know where everything is (and sometimes is not). I was the project manager for evaluating various methodologies and technologies for accomplishing this. ~10 years prior, I did the same thing for my previous company's manufacturing facility.

    You can purchase systems which have a substantial useable range. It is easier of you have 'active' transponders attached to the device. Since they actually transmit, the interrogator units are able to achieve greater range, without too much more additional power. The big downside is (of course) you must have powered transmitters on each piece of equipment.

    'Passive' transponders eliminate that need, but the interrogator needs to have a very sophisticated receiver unit, capable of reading/amplifying very weak signals (radar signal strength - microvolts). To provide coverage for 1 acre, you probably need 3 units to triangulate a ~24" +/- 12" lattice. I have 3 quotes from late 2005 and the low cost was ~$35,000 each. The entire system, installed was (as I recall) $215,000, with annual maintenance of 18%.

    If you wanted to use this technology to track an individual anywhere in the US, you would have to deploy many sophisticated, fixed satellites. The NSA has the funds to do this, and they love this type of thing. But, it does not seem like something a Cost/Benefit analysis would say makes sense. It would seem more likely this would be more beneficial for screening passports. It would be much more difficult to alter a passport, use a stolen one, or an unissued one. This is just a guess mind.
     
  24. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #24
    I see by this photo ReverendGoatBoy is still having a large influence on the Interspazz even after his death.:D
    http://www.popbitch.com/revgb/

    As Skunk rightly points out the technology doesn't work and guess what? it's black and brown people who get misidentified most often.
     
  25. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #25
    One of the shippers who is using the "powered RFID tags" on shipping containers says there are problems reading those accurately all the time.

    With the unpowered ones like passports, liquor bottles, etc. the problems reading those and tracking them beyond a few feet go up drastically. Since bodies and objects can block the signals.

    Which fits in with what SMM says, it can be done, but the system starts to get costly and complex to track specific items accurately with the unpowered tags.
     

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