There Will Always Be An England

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Desertrat, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    Terlingua, Texas
    #1
    I got home from supper at Applebee's. Whee! They served twice as many fried shrimp as I'd expected. Life was good. So I get on the Internet for my nightly entertainment. From today's "Daily Reckoning" comes this little tidbit from Old Blighty:

    "A great-grandmother in England was slapped with a £1,000 fine and forced to wear an electronic tag for seven weeks after it was revealed she had sold a goldfish to a person under the age of 16. The case was part of a trading standards ‘sting’ conducted by local authorities in the woman’s hometown of Trafford.

    The prosecution of the “culprit” (and her son, presumably for “aiding and abetting” the offender) is estimated to have cost taxpayers £20,000 and has left the 66-year old woman with a criminal record. It must be lovely for a nation to be in a position to burn through public cash with such little regard for budgetary responsibility, and where its law enforcement agencies have nothing better to do than conduct sting operations targeting local goldfish peddlers."

    It's nice to know that the US is not the only country where the passage of laws and the enforcement thereof borders on the totally insane.
     
  2. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #2
    Blimey! When I read that I spit out my earl grey! :)
     
  3. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #3
    I wonder what InYeNet has to say about this...

    Pretty effed up...
     
  4. Bennieboy© macrumors 65816

    Bennieboy©

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    england
    #4
    this type of thing is happening all the time, meanwhile newspapers are the like are always talking about high profile criminals being let out early, or having insurance claims for damages won whilst in the care of prisons,

    there will always be an england but it's certainly not ever going to be as it once was :mad:
     
  5. Ttownbeast macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Ads long as there are societies there will be a number of retarded practices it's not always been Englands burden to bear alone.
     
  6. macfan881 macrumors 68020

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    #6
    unfortunetly stupidy is not just only in the united stated
     
  7. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #7
    Here's a BBC link to the story that hasn't been sensationalised nor heavily edited.

    Turns out she's a pet shop owner, had sold animals to individuals underage before, and had an animal suffering untreated with a broken bone in her store. The tag is punishment because she is unfit for community work.

    Quite a bit different to the shrimp narrative.


    edit: I fully endorse any prosecution of individuals mistreating animals irrespective of age. Great-grandmother or not.
     
  8. renewed macrumors 68040

    renewed

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    #8
    Thanks for this.

    This right here is why you have to be careful about what you read on the internet and be careful of the news. The true story makes sense and doesn't create quite the stir the above story did.
     
  9. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #9
    Here's another source:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...or-selling-goldfish-to-14yearold-1931974.html

    as far as I can see she got what she deserved.
     
  10. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #10
    If you were trying to caricature an English speaker you would always use spat as the past tense of spit.
     
  11. bobertoq macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 29, 2008
    #11
    But don't you think putting an electronic bracelet on her, telling her what time to come home, and wasting 22 thousand of tax pounds is a little excessive? How about a big fine and a warning, if she does anything like this again she faces bigger penalties?
     
  12. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #12
    She had sold to an underage buyer before and I suspect trying to sell an injured Cockatiel which was suffering to the point of needing to be put out of its misery was the bigger part of the crime.She was to be sentenced to community service as well as the £1000 fine, because she claims to be too ill for that she was given the curfew instead.
     
  13. bobertoq macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    So she gets caught selling an injured bird once, and she gets all those penalties and fines plus 22,000 pounds of tax payer money goes to waste. I think that's a little excessive. Yeah, I know, she sold goldfish to kids, too. How terrible.
     
  14. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #14
    From the BBC story: "He said the "main reason we took this prosecution was because the pet shop owner had caused unnecessary suffering to a cockatiel".

    So where, pray tell, was the far more appropriate charge of, say, "Negligent animal cruelty"? (Or some equivalent.) Why a sting operation and an expense of around $30,000?

    And why would there be an age thing about selling some sort of pet animal? Once kids are in their teens, anyway, what's the problem?

    The bit about the 14-year-old drowning a gerbil is the parents' deal, not of the pet-seller or the authorities. You don't jump on a car dealer because he sold a car to a bank robber.

    Nothing in the story to indicate wilful harm or cruelty to animals...

    Too many in authority act as though their competence in governance comes from a week at Camp Runamuck.
     
  15. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    Seattle
    #15
    While it may be the "parents' deal," if fewer animals will be tortured by putting an age restriction on the selling of pets, I fully support it.

    Are you also against the age requirement for mature video games? Just curious.
     
  16. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #16
    Although I can't find the actual charge it was under animal cruelty legislation.The shop had been warned two years previously for not supplying care information (a legal requirement) to buyers.The pet industry in the U.K. has a bad reputation for animal cruelty and this is a welcome step to doing something about it. The cost is a not a concern animal welfare is.(under the legislation she could have gone to goal)


    A spokeswoman said: "Like many other pet shop owners, Higgins demonstrates profit comes before animal welfare in the pet trade by selling an animal to someone who may not be able to care for it fully and properly and even permitting a cockatiel to suffer a broken leg and eye problems.

    "Ensuring pet shop owners adhere to basic animal welfare standards is the bare minimal that must be expected by authorities, yet cruelty in the pet trade remains the norm, not the exception."


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/31/pet-shop-prosecuted-goldfish-sale
     
  17. No1451 macrumors 6502

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    Ottawa, ON
    #17
    What happens in the home is not the vendors responsibility, the fault lies with the guilty party and the parents.

    I'm still unsure how to feel about this case, leaving an injured animal isn't cool, but when didn't they bring her up on charges for it if that was the real issue?
     
  18. djellison macrumors 68020

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    Pasadena CA
    #18
    Damn right she did - and if it cost £20k of my taxes to make sure she doesn't make any more animals suffer, it's money very well spent.
     
  19. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    Illinois
    #19
    I have to point out one issue with this story.

    Estimates of 20,000 in cost? That's nothing more than someone trying to sensationalize this case.

    I say that because there are few if any additional costs to the system for prosecuting a case like this. The police are going to be working anyway on this or something else, this at least results in a conviction and fines. The electronic tags are already owned, and at least they are being used. The attorneys for the government are already employed, therefore they are getting paid to work anyway, and one more case of this sort is merely a drop in the bucket (trust me, one more or less case will have practically no measurable effect). The attorneys for the the defendant will be paid for by the defendant (very unlikely this person would require a state supported attorney). The court is there already with all of its personnel, so no additional costs. The probation department is there, so no additional cost.

    The only "cost" is in time. The police, the attorneys/probation officers, the court could all be doing something else, but this case resulted in a charge, a plea and a fine.

    If there actually are any additional costs used in this case, it might be the fees paid to informants, the cost of the fish, and perhaps any special equipment they may have needed for this case, and that cannot be used on other cases.
     
  20. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #20
    Oh, macfan881. What would we do without you?
     
  21. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #21
    "The pet industry in the U.K. has a bad reputation for animal cruelty..."

    That's a truly sad indictment...

    We have wacko individuals in the US, insofar as inhumane treatment. The satellite TV channel "Animal Planet" regularly covers the efforts of our Humane Society-type people. SFAIK we don't have a great problem in the actual commercial pet industry.
     
  22. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #22
    You might want to look a bit deeper,puppy mills etc are just as big a problem in the U.S.
     

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