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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Feb 2, 2005.
Great... Just Great...
How about we just forget about healthcare all together and make the people pay for their own doctors?
This is supposed to be a government of the people and for the people
not a government of the people and for the political/economic elitists.
You forgot the corporations. Advancing their interests is what this government is all about.
I dunno, but I don't believe for one bit that, that is the government's goal. I believe its more like the government is subtley nudged in that direction, and some times even forced to do what would be directly against the benefits of the american people.
Far be it for me to drop the scales from your eyes, but if you look closely (or even distantly) at most of the bills that have passed Congress over the last few years, you'll find benefits larded onto one or more industries. These interests do come first; if anything is left over, we might see it. Just follow the money, my son -- follow the money.
"...more careful users of health care..."???
Yeah, I know every time I get a hangnail I expect an ambulance ride and a room in the ICU.
This is yet another government handout to business, another way to regress us back to the 19th-century.
How long are we going to put up with this S**T before we take this country back??
Didn't you know that most users of health care ask for ambulence rides for splinters? Just like most welfare recipients are professional 'wait-by-the-mailbox' types.
Yup, just this morning ....
I had a headache so I called an ambulance, then requested a full body MRI just to be safe.
(Ack!... Ack!!.. Ack!!! -Ad Infinitum-)
I say, start writing your representives in the house! Especially the republican ones. Barrage them with letters telling them they or the republican party will not get your vote next year if they pass these bills through.
I wouldn't mind this for myself if my company would give the money saved on insurance to the me in my paychecks. Of course I almost never get sick and see a doctor once every 3-4 years, and once implemented i know I would all of a sudden become very sickly.
As a plan applied across everyone this is horrible. Increase everyone's personal expenses by adding medical fees on top of all of their other financial obligations and make them less likely to see a doctor before illnesses/injuries become serious. I would think that productivity losses due to employees long term illnesses (everyone who puts off a cold until it becomes pneumonia because it's too expensive) would almost offset any gain that corporations would see. Does anyone think people would keep up with preventative healthcare if they had to pay full price every time they see a doctor?
<sarcasm>interesting plan...it is not enough to remove major sources of Democratic funding through tort-reform and Union regulation changes, but now the GOP can just kill or seriously marginalize (with ilness/destitution) many key demographics of the Democratic base.<sarcasm>
Ultimately, this will never work, at least not for an extended period of time. The underlying contributers to the skyrocketing costs of Health care have not been adequately addressed, and indeed exarcerbated as the last Medicare Reform bill has shown. As our the baby-boomers continue to age, they will be an important voting block, as will the generation below them who will find themselves unable to afford health care for themselves of their families. Once the problem affects enough people to gain critical mass, like during another recession (which is inevitable), any policies such as this will be scrapped and the leadership associated with them removed. You may very well see the Revenge of the Democrats and the ascension of FDR 2 and the New, New Deal.
Like much greed-based policy decisions, in Government and in Business, this will be unsustainable over even the medium-term, and while the benefactors of such a scheme may never be held accountable, the policies will, and will be changed.
I'd say you've got the same chance of this as you have of an accident at work suddenly endowing you with super-powers.
In all seriousness, it wouldn't be the same. As much as your employer pays for you, they are usually getting a large group rate. You probably couldn't touch a personal health plan for the same amount of money...and that's if they decided not to exclude you for any prior medical history.
And you thought you were only kidding?
Another reason I'm moving to Canada.
This type of plan works well for healthy people. I have a chronic disease that requires constant medication.
I cannot afford to live in the New America.
How many people have lost their homes due to a severe illness?
You know, this is the kind of crap that makes me eager to leave.
What kind of "greatest nation in the world" or "superpower" doesn't have the right to seek good health built into it?
It's all a part of the 'ownership society'. The rich get to own your **** when you get sick or injured, or need to sue and can't.
Now, here's the real kicker: As anyone who's worked for themselves can attest, an individual in the health insurance market is basically roadkill from word go. They have zero bargaining power. Rules regulating the industry vary from state to state, but given an outstanding health issue, you could easily find yourself being either (1) uninsurable, or (2) not insurable at an affordable price. Pushing millions more Americans into this miasma is an insurance industry executive's wet dream come true. No longer would they be compelled to provide coverage for millions of non-affluent or unhealthy Americans. Those people will be left to beg at the public trough -- IOW, a perfect solution from an industry standpoint.
Exactly. Any beancounter worth his or her salt realizes that if you insure the right people, ie those who will file as few claims for as little money as possible, aka healthy people, that their profits will increase dramtically over a scenario wherein they cannot cherrypick their customers. But healthy people are the ones who need coverage the least. A sick person needs the coverage, but will they get it? Hell no, not if the number crunchers have their say.
Right you are, and that is kinda the (hopeful) point of my above post. That the logic behind this, in political terms, is not sustainable. If the ranks of the uninsured hit critical mass, it is likely that the Government will step in with anything from Federal subsidies to complete overhaul, even Nationalization of Health Care. This would spell relative doom to the Insurance Industry, although a wealthy % of the population would probably still opt for private care/insurance.
Of course, in the intervening years between now and that moment, the Insurance Industry would make a killing (a not funny pun) and most likely not be held accountable as Individual companies, let alone individuals.
Nevertheless, this strategy moves so far towards one poll ( ahem...pole)and the effects will be so profound, as to necessitate an eventual swing to the other side, even extreme.
oh...I'm still wearing my foil hat...sorry.
I've given up trying to figure out what's politically sustainable. I should have thought that 45 million uninsured would have been a critical mass, but I'd have thought wrong. Imagine if all these people had voted their economic interests last November? All I can say for certain is that Congress and the President will over the next four years do their utmost to comfort the comfortable, and sell it to everybody else as being in their interest. It's a house of cards for sure, but when it will come crashing down is anybody's guess.
And therein lies the problem with just about every healthcare solution, and why this one will be more popular with people at first.
Government provided healthcare is not popular enough due to the fact that people will have to pay higher taxes without an increase in income. This one will win over more people due to the "Tax exempt" healthcare account. People will see that as being able to get free money despite the fact that they will now be paying through the nose for their healthcare.
How long will it be before someone comes up with an insurance plan to fill the new gap for individuals paying their own healthcare expenses? So at that point we have your catastrophic illness insurance, the "new" health insurance which is almost exactly like what we have now, and all of it at the expense of the individual.
My God its brilliant! Corporations save lots of money. People get screwed and another insurance industry is born. Who is our government working for again?
I'd buy into Medicare, if I could. My out-of-pocket costs would be lower and my benefits better (not to mention, more secure), and I suspect even my doctor would approve. But this isn't going to happen, because it would force the insurance industry to compete directly with a government program, and that would put the lie to the argument that industry is inherently more efficient than the government.
I'm wondering how to categorise this.
Of course it's easy to say Bush wants to privatise Social Security.
Is this re-privatised health care?
I basically told my employer they could take their HMO health plan and non-matching 401k and stick it up their arse. It is cheaper for me to go to the Anchorage Neighborhood Health Center and make sliding-scale payments, as I made scant for money last year - 80% off services.
For anything serious though, either medicare or go bankrupt. Hell I do not need car loans, Apple Store loans (a rip-off 20% interest), credit cards, or any of that snizzle.