THINK DIFFERENT - Pope John Paul II

meme2005

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 4, 2005
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Anyone else was hoping to see an apple site cover of Pope John Paul II - think different theme?
 

Laslo Panaflex

macrumors 65816
May 1, 2003
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Tokyo
I don't see how the pope was "thinking different". He basically stood firm to support the beliefs of Catholicism, just like every other Pope. Not that it's an easy job, and he shouldn't be commended, but "thinking different", I don' think so.

Having said that I am not catholic, and didn't follow the life of John II, so my comment could be way off and appauling to catholics, but that's just my ignorance, I don't mend to offend anyone.
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
ProjektJ said:
it's too un-pc

people always get fiery over religeon
religion is a bit too touchy of a topic for any mulit nantional corporation to touch, its not a universal so its hard for them to do anything with it, historical figures as were in the Think Different campaign even if they were religious at least have a different idea behind them
 

fox2005

macrumors member
Dec 31, 2004
88
0
Lima, Peru
it is kind of awkward though they put in their home this actor/dancer (i think) that died last year, i don't remember his name, and i thought it was a nice tribute...

On the other hand the Pope is definately an icon, i've never seen so many people moved by a personality death never in my life, and although im not a christian, neither a religious person i am definately moved by that and can recongnize the credit and quality of this person.

And thinking of peace, instead of fighting and war in this troubled times is definately a Think diferent...
 

mac-er

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2003
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They put Johnny Cash on there when he died...pretty contemporary.

The Holy Father can be regarded as a world leader who is widely respected by all religions/atheists.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
Laslo Panaflex said:
I don't see how the pope was "thinking different". He basically stood firm to support the beliefs of Catholicism, just like every other Pope. Not that it's an easy job, and he shouldn't be commended, but "thinking different", I don' think so.

Having said that I am not catholic, and didn't follow the life of John II, so my comment could be way off and appauling to catholics, but that's just my ignorance, I don't mend to offend anyone.
John Paul II didn't think different because of the beliefs he espoused, but the way he went about it. He was very visible and traveled all over the world. He made unprecedented attempts to heal rifts with other faiths. He went above and beyond what most popes did. That's why he could be a candidate for "Think Different."

P.S. I'm Catholic and your post was in no way offending at all. :)
 

ZicklePop

macrumors member
Mar 28, 2005
98
0
mac-er said:
widely respected by all religions/atheists.
Not saying I don't respect him but thats not true but same with Johnny Cash though. Everyone doesnt like everything.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
ZicklePop said:
Not saying I don't respect him but thats not true but same with Johnny Cash though. Everyone doesnt like everything.
I believe he said "widely respected" not "respected by everyone." I think it's pretty safe to say that most people respected him.

EDIT: I reread my post and it seems a bit, I don't know, not nice. Sorry if it sounds that way. I don't mean it that way.
 

wdlove

macrumors P6
Oct 20, 2002
16,570
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I was wondering over the weekend if Apple would Acknowledge the death of Pope John Paul II. He is a world figure.

I can think of one reason for his comment, but will wait to see the comment of johnnowak. I have wondered if the Pope is like the rest of us in that he has to account for his failings/sins.
 

~loserman~

macrumors 6502a
johnnowak said:
I have no respect for the pope.
Personally I have no more or no less respect for him than any other man.
While on a personal level he was a high achiever for the life he chose and from what I've read about him he seemed to be a decent human being but so are many others who never put themselves in the limelight.
 

ham_man

macrumors 68020
Jan 21, 2005
2,265
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johnnowak said:
I have no respect for the pope.
That whole campaigning to end AIDS and the culture of death, helping to bring about the fall of Communism and all in all promoting a good life was nothing. He lived such an lazy life... :rolleyes:
 

Toreador93

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2003
190
0
Laslo Panaflex said:
I don't see how the pope was "thinking different". He basically stood firm to support the beliefs of Catholicism, just like every other Pope. Not that it's an easy job, and he shouldn't be commended, but "thinking different", I don' think so.

Having said that I am not catholic, and didn't follow the life of John II, so my comment could be way off and appauling to catholics, but that's just my ignorance, I don't mend to offend anyone.

Pope John Paul II was the first/only Pope to apologize for wrong-doings in the Church, including the arrest of Galileo, the Inquisition, Cruisades, and for not helping the Jews in WWII. I think that's a pretty big leap.

Some time in '99, he also (well, the Vatican, but it reaches him at some point) acknowledged the existance of UFOs (not necessarily aliens, but "something") and downgraded the Devil from a Being to a Psychological Disturbance.
 

angelneo

macrumors 68000
Jun 13, 2004
1,537
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afk
Actually, I didn't know much about the Pope and what he did, mostly due to the fact that I ignored news about religions. I feel that most of the time when a person has been elevated to a high enough position especially in religion, people in those beliefs tends to see whatever that person did through a rose-colored glass. Although it may be argue that that person has already proven himself by being assigned such a position.

It's just my generic view, nothing against the current situation.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
I've never been a Catholic, and I'm not really a protestant Christian anymore either, but I think he thought differently at least sometimes. He deserves some recognition for reaching out to the Lutheran Church. It hasn't changed much in the world, but it was a good baby step.
 

~loserman~

macrumors 6502a
Toreador93 said:
Some time in '99, he also (well, the Vatican, but it reaches him at some point) acknowledged the existance of UFOs (not necessarily aliens, but "something") and downgraded the Devil from a Being to a Psychological Disturbance.
Wow that's news to me....
Never heard that before.... Where is the supporting link?
That must really mess up Papal infallibility.
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
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iowa
i don't really think the pope did anything in line with the "think different" philosophy. this is one of the most conservative men in the world you're talking about.

on a personal level. i suppose if one can balance his misdeeds (chronic inaction in the areas of abusive clergy, magdalene houses, human rights infractions, and repeated/sustained attempts to undermine the constitution of the US to get started) with the good he did, like opposing communism (which he got lucky on, as he was opposing it for the wrong reason), you can put him just about even in the world, and that's fine. Personally, I cannot help but feel malignancy towards him, as I find him to be a great representation of all that's wrong with religion.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
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San Diego, CA
~loserman~ said:
Wow that's news to me....
Never heard that before.... Where is the supporting link?
That must really mess up Papal infallibility.
I don't think so. Papal infallibility only applies to things said really, really officially, that is when the pope is speaking ex cathedra. The only I don't think any pope ever spoke ex cathedra saying the opposite of these things before. There was never an official declaration saying the devil is a being, for example. It was just a common perception at the time. Papal infallibility has a very narrow scope.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
rainman::|:| said:
Personally, I cannot help but feel malignancy towards him, as I find him to be a great representation of all that's wrong with religion.
Really? That's really surprising to me. To me he represents all that is right with religion, that is, working your hardest to do the right thing all the time. He was a very intelligent person and believed all that he did for a reason. To me, all that is wrong with religion are people who just follow everything blindly. All that is wrong with religion are those who cling to one or two issues, such as homosexuality or abortion, just because it's easy to make black and white. John Paul wasn't afraid of going after all the issues at the same time. It's a shame that the media has put such emphasis on only a few things that he has done, namely, his teachings on sexuality.

But to each his own. :)
 

~loserman~

macrumors 6502a
Macaddicttt said:
I don't think so. Papal infallibility only applies to things said really, really officially, that is when the pope is speaking ex cathedra. The only I don't think any pope ever spoke ex cathedra saying the opposite of these things before. There was never an official declaration saying the devil is a being, for example. It was just a common perception at the time. Papal infallibility has a very narrow scope.
Nope the Catholic church has clear teaching as to the existence of a REAL Devil/devils and Satan.

excerpt:


In Judaeo-Christian culture the devil has always been a definite element. The Old Testament and especially the New Testament writings attest that the devil or Satan exists and has a role in the life of man on earth (1 Chr. 21:1, Job 1, 2, Wis. 2:24, Matt. 4:1, 5, 8, 11, Mark 1:13, John 6:70, Acts 5:3, Rom. 16:20, 1 Cor. 5:5, 7:5, 1 Tim. 3:6, Heb. 2:14, Rev. 2:9, plus dozens of other verses).

In the ceremony of initiation in the primitive Church, Satan was renounced. The Catholic Church moreover has clear teaching on the fallen angels as part of our faith. As all angelic beings, they were created by God as fully spiritual creatures, magnificently endowed in their nature. The devil and the other demons were created by God good according to their nature, but they made themselves evil by their own doing (Lateran IV, DS 800).

The devil, and the other angels who associated themselves with him, gave in to pride; they desired to exalt themselves above their created condition, to be completely independent and to make themselves divine. The angel sinned by seeking his own good from his own free will, insubordinately to the rule of the divine will (Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae [ST] I:63:1:4). Beatitude, which could not be obtained except with the help of God's grace, the devils wished to gain by their own efforts (ST I:63:3). It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. &quotThere is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death" (CCC 393).

Having by their own free will lost their destiny, the devils were forever barred from the vision of God and condemned into that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41).

The devils committed another sin which befitted their fallen state, the abiding sin of envy, whereby the fallen angel grieved over man's good and also over the divine excellence (ST I:63:3). This explains the tempting of our first parents. As for man, his sin was at the prompting of the devil (Lateran IV, DS 800).

Any pronouncement on Satan/devil as not being real would be a major change for the entire history/teaching of the Catholic church....
It did not happen.