thinksecret's nick Ciarelli, a havard student, can't affor...


Lord Blackadder

macrumors G5
May 7, 2004
13,521
2,557
Sod off
I'm still torn on this issue; I love the rumors and speculation but I would probably take somewhat of a dim view of them if I was Steve, since they ruin my theatrics at MWSF.

This antagonistic attitude towards leaks by companies is nothing new, but it's hitting close to home now. Of course, if people abided by their NDA the info wouldn't be on Think Secret. Seems like the Think Secret lawsuit is mostly scare tactics against other potential news outlets.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
Where are all the people who think Apple is crushing the kid under their heels, and the paypal donations.

He should only need about $250 thousand for the legal retainer to land a decent defense.

A bit less if Apple only wants to nail him for tortious interference, though he'll still need to show in California for the May 2005 court date.
 

sebisworld

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2003
344
0
Face It Guys - The Best. Keynote. Ever. would have been a lot better if we hadn't spoiled the fun for us by looking at all those rumour sites. It's like looking for Christmas presents in advance.
That said, i think a "good karma" company like Apple shouldn't file a lawsuit for this.
 

mfacey

macrumors 65816
Feb 1, 2004
1,216
0
Netherlands
sebisworld said:
Face It Guys - The Best. Keynote. Ever. would have been a lot better if we hadn't spoiled the fun for us by looking at all those rumour sites. It's like looking for Christmas presents in advance.
That said, i think a "good karma" company like Apple shouldn't file a lawsuit for this.

Good Karma, maybe. But in the end they're goal is to sell products and make money in the process. If a site like this interferes with this process I would be pretty irritated too. If a significant proportion of possible new mac buyers are regularly visiting these rumor sites it could have a considerable impact on sales especially before a big event like mwsf. I can see Apple's irritation, though I feel Apple should be sueing the squealers that are giving away their secrets to Thinksecret instead of the site that collects them. Yes I know that is wrong too, but I always feel that the dealers are bigger criminals that the customers.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,551
1,186
Apple HAS to defend its secrets.

Whether they have any legitimate legal complaint against TS specifically is something I don't get yet.
 

tdhurst

macrumors 601
Dec 27, 2003
4,003
101
Phoenix, AZ
Nitpicky...

sebisworld said:
Face It Guys - The Best. Keynote. Ever. would have been a lot better if we hadn't spoiled the fun for us by looking at all those rumour sites. It's like looking for Christmas presents in advance.
That said, i think a "good karma" company like Apple shouldn't file a lawsuit for this.
No such thing as good karma. All karma is bad...
 

shamino

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2004
3,386
130
Purcellville, VA
The Apple employees/contractors that violated their NDAs should be found and prosecuted. No question about that.

As for Ciarelli and TS, no way. What he's done (ask questions and publish the answers) is no different from every investigative journalist in the business.

The difference is that when NBC News gets sued, they have a legal department that will fight it, and usually win, while Ciarelli will have to come up with his own means of paying for a legal team.

If these news items were published by an established media agency, Apple wouldn't have dared to begin this fishing expedition.
 

iJon

macrumors 604
Feb 7, 2002
6,557
36
shamino said:
The Apple employees/contractors that violated their NDAs should be found and prosecuted. No question about that.

As for Ciarelli and TS, no way. What he's done (ask questions and publish the answers) is no different from every investigative journalist in the business.

The difference is that when NBC News gets sued, they have a legal department that will fight it, and usually win, while Ciarelli will have to come up with his own means of paying for a legal team.

If these news items were published by an established media agency, Apple wouldn't have dared to begin this fishing expedition.
I would be curious to know how much money he would get if he opened up a paypal account to help. It would be interesting cause the community is split in half on whose side they are on.

jon
 

Nickygoat

macrumors 6502a
Dec 11, 2004
992
0
London
13? *thinks what I was doing when I was 13* :eek:
If Apple does take him to court and wins - forcing him to disclose his sources - it will have a chilling effect on future journalism. Who will want to disclose to the press, about anything, if they can be found by suing the media? I agree that Apple should try and protect it's NDA, but not at theexpense of journalistic freedom. It won't do them any PR good to sue the pants off a 19 year old student either. I hope Apple loses the case.
 

jadam

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2002
699
1
cmon, he goes to harvard, make it a school project or something! There are tons of lawyers at harvard! Free publicity for them!
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
jadam said:
cmon, he goes to harvard, make it a school project or something! There are tons of lawyers at harvard! Free publicity for them!
Still has to raise some $10k bills to ship some of them to California to sit in on the Court Meeting, and grab a local lawyer to help them out and file some of the preliminary motions to try to get it kicked out of the California court.
 

macidiot

macrumors 6502a
Aug 13, 2002
815
0
jadam said:
cmon, he goes to harvard, make it a school project or something! There are tons of lawyers at harvard! Free publicity for them!
I'm thinking Dershowitz is chomping at the bit to get some face time... ;)
 

painimies

macrumors member
Jan 10, 2002
66
0
iJon said:
I would be curious to know how much money he would get if he opened up a paypal account to help. It would be interesting cause the community is split in half on whose side they are on.

jon
Yeah. I bet he'd get tons if it was MS doing the suing. (Gee, rhymes!) Mac people tend to like Apple so much they want to be on their side even if they'd normally stand for the little man.

And mods, please correct the headline.
 

deuceswilde

macrumors newbie
Jan 12, 2005
6
0
I think the Apple's needs to keep it's secrets secret is understandable but they also need to recognize that they possess a "fanbase" unlike anything in the computer industry and one of the few groups of people actively interested in scrounging around for rumors like this. Regardless of their efforts to counter this secrets will always come out. I think Apple's move in this case is over the top and too harsh for a company that survives off of its core group of supporters. Scare tactics and threatened lawsuits would be a more effective\ less tyrannical method of doing this.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,551
1,186
mfacey said:
If a significant proportion of possible new mac buyers are regularly visiting these rumor sites
No. Just us :)

But when it spreads to analysts and mainstream press, like it often does, THAT's another matter. That's enough of an audience to do harm.

BTW isn't their some group trying to establish in court that bloggers should have the same immunity as journalists to hide their sources of info?

I can see THAT being terribly abused if taken to extremes... "I started a blog and mentioned the murder... now they can't ask me who did it." But it could be some help to Nick.
 

G4scott

macrumors 68020
Jan 9, 2002
2,219
2
Austin, TX
I don't think Apple has much of a case against him. They can try to get the names out of him, by threatening him with enormous lawsuits and legal fees, but that's the only problem. You still need a considerable amount of money to fight them, even if their case is pretty weak. Of course, he's a college student. If a college girl can raise enough money for a boob job, he should be able to raise enough money to fight off Apple. He just needs to appeal to the geeks who will support his cause, and I'm sure there are plenty of those at Harvard. That, and all the lawyers that come from there should help...
 

gwangung

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2003
1,106
19
shamino said:
The Apple employees/contractors that violated their NDAs should be found and prosecuted. No question about that.

As for Ciarelli and TS, no way. What he's done (ask questions and publish the answers) is no different from every investigative journalist in the business.

The difference is that when NBC News gets sued, they have a legal department that will fight it, and usually win, while Ciarelli will have to come up with his own means of paying for a legal team.

If these news items were published by an established media agency, Apple wouldn't have dared to begin this fishing expedition.
If the information is deemed to be a trade secret, an established news agency could have been sued.

ThinkSecret is NOT necessarily equivalent to an investigative reporter. The difference between an investigative reporter and TS is in their subject, which goes back to the marketplace of ideas, which underlies First Amendment law. That self same marketplace of ideas recognizes the value of trade secrets, whereby a business can successfully keep information hidden from the public in order to do business (for example, if the NY Times published the formula for Coke, they'd get slapped silly with a lawsuit and punitive damages).

If ThinkSecret were publishing stories about how Apple's manufacturing processes were poisoning the local populace, that'd be different. It would be in the public interest to learn that. It is NOT in the public interest to find out the specs of an Apple product ahead of time.
 

shamino

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2004
3,386
130
Purcellville, VA
nagromme said:
BTW isn't their some group trying to establish in court that bloggers should have the same immunity as journalists to hide their sources of info?
Actually, journalists are not immune. They have been sued in the past. Many have gone to jail (usually on contempt of court charges) rather than reveal their sources.

Prosecutors and judges usually choose to not make demands like this, because the press almost never complies, and it's bad PR to get a reputation for putting reporters in jail, but as far as I know, there is no law preventing such demands.
 

shamino

macrumors 68040
Jan 7, 2004
3,386
130
Purcellville, VA
gwangung said:
If ThinkSecret were publishing stories about how Apple's manufacturing processes were poisoning the local populace, that'd be different. It would be in the public interest to learn that. It is NOT in the public interest to find out the specs of an Apple product ahead of time.
Since when is it up to the government to decide what is in the public interest?

Last I looked, I was a member of the public as well, and I am interested in this stuff.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
sjpetry said:
gwangung said:
It is NOT in the public interest to find out the specs of an Apple product ahead of time.
The public is not intrested in Apple specs of future machines. Then why is their MacRumors?
Big difference between the public being interested in a new machines features and something that would be in the public interest such as a company using those machines (or a stainless steel sports car) to smuggle in drugs to the US.
 

sjpetry

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2004
1,195
0
Tamarindo, Costa Rica
Sun Baked said:
Big difference between the public being interested in a new machines features and something that would be in the public interest such as a company using those machines (or a stainless steel sports car) to smuggle in drugs to the US.
Just remember we Mac users are not the public but an elite group of highly sophisticated and articulate people. :p
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
sjpetry said:
Just remember we Mac users are not the public but an elite group of highly sophisticated and articulate people. :p
That's also true... so if you look at...
Thus, these trade secrets, as disclosed by Bunner, address matters of purely private concern and not matters of public importance. (See Connick, at p. 148 [information that, “if released to the public, would convey no information at all other than the fact that a single employee is upset with the status quo” does not involve a matter of public concern]; Dun & Bradstreet, supra, 472 U.S. at p. 762 [“speech solely in the individual interest of the speaker and its specific . . . audience” does not involve a matter of public concern].)
we'd still fall in as a "specific audience" and not the public at large. :p

And that idiot dropped the decrypt scheme for the DVD encryption on the net, and was still shot down and not being a "public concern."