This doesn't bode well for Dems going forward.....

Herdfan

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I know there are lots of threads about the impending doom of the Democratic party. But this article, which is not on a right wing blog, kind of lays out some problems.

One of the first steps to solving a problem is to actual know what the problem is. I think this paragraph is very interesting and one that I would not have realized:

Those Obama-Trump voters effectively accounted for more than two-thirds of the reason Clinton lost, according to Matt Canter, a senior vice president of the Democratic political firm Global Strategy Group. In his group's analysis, about 70 percent of Clinton's failure to reach Obama's vote total in 2012 was because she lost these voters.
So maybe low base turnout for Hillary wasn't the problem, but instead Obama voters turning to Trump.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/democrats-say-they-now-know-exactly-why-clinton-lost/ar-BBAz1Gn
 
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Herdfan

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Can we just admit the election was a s#$show. There's no single reason Trump won or Hillary lost. The campaigning and election were a cluster...
If you get some time, you many want to read Shattered. If the stories in that book are only half true, I think a lot of Dems who voted for her would be glad Trump won. If she ran the WH like she did her campaign we would be in a whole lot of trouble.
 

samcraig

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If you get some time, you many want to read Shattered. If the stories in that book are only half true, I think a lot of Dems who voted for her would be glad Trump won. If she ran the WH like she did her campaign we would be in a whole lot of trouble.
Because we're not now? What an interesting statement. I take no comfort in the way Trump is running the WH nor the country. I also don't think they would be "glad" Trump won.
 

ibookg409

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Can we just admit the election was a s#$show. There's no single reason Trump won or Hillary lost. The campaigning and election were a cluster...
Hillary being a lying piece of crap is why she lost. Trump being a lying piece of crap is why he won. Trump told the right (correct) lies to get elected. Hillary got caught telling lies and it cost her. I truly think it is that simple

Also, Hillary having to be hauled around like she was shooting a reboot of Weekend at Bernie's didn't help either.
 

samcraig

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Hillary being a lying piece of crap is why she lost. Trump being a lying piece of crap is why he won. Trump told the right (correct) lies to get elected. Hillary got caught telling lies and it cost her. I truly think it is that simple

Also, Hillary having to be hauled around like she was shooting a reboot of Weekend at Bernie's didn't help either.
We can agree to disagree that it was one thing. Interesting that you refer to Hillary as a lying piece of crap, but Trump gets no such name calling.
 

AngerDanger

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Dec 9, 2008
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We can agree to disagree that it was one thing. Interesting that you refer to Hillary as a lying piece of crap, but Trump gets no such name calling.
Except for:

Hillary being a lying piece of crap is why she lost. Trump being a lying piece of crap is why he won. Trump told the right (correct) lies to get elected. Hillary got caught telling lies and it cost her. I truly think it is that simple

Also, Hillary having to be hauled around like she was shooting a reboot of Weekend at Bernie's didn't help either.
 

BarracksSi

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Even though they used different angles, Bernie and Trump were running on the same antiestablishment message.

Somewhere between the Republican Right and the Democratic Left is the group that either sat out this election or pushed Trump into the White House.

We may have a three- or four-party system in my lifetime.
 

MadeTheSwitch

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Apr 20, 2009
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o maybe low base turnout for Hillary wasn't the problem, but instead Obama voters turning to Trump.
Oh I do think that is a problem, but it's silly to predict doom and gloom. Pendulums swing both ways. It's not like Republicans will be running things for the next 100 years like some of you fantasize about.
 

ibookg409

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Good. Because I'm not a fan of keurig, drip (unless its chemex) or most other kinds...
Keurig is gross I think. I've never had a cup of Keurig coffee that I have enjoyed. I recently got a stove top peculator that I am enjoying as well. It's tricky though to time it correctly so the coffee doesn't get too weak or strong.
 

samcraig

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Jun 22, 2009
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Keurig is gross I think. I've never had a cup of Keurig coffee that I have enjoyed. I recently got a stove top peculator that I am enjoying as well. It's tricky though to time it correctly so the coffee doesn't get too weak or strong.
Sorry - I don't understand too strong? What's that?
 

jpietrzak8

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Feb 16, 2010
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Establishment Democrats need to go away and they need to quit demonizing progressives or they doomed. Their level of corruption is an embarrassment.
Progressives need to go away and they need to quit demonizing establishment Democrats or they are doomed. ;)

Man, you can't rule from the fringes. The far left is "far" for a reason; the majority of people don't agree with them! You need to be inclusive to rule in this country, which I think is a good thing. If you want the Democratic party to just turn into one of those eternal third parties who prefer philosophical purity over compromise, be my guest...
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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May 13, 2016
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Progressives need to go away and they need to quit demonizing establishment Democrats or they are doomed. ;)

Man, you can't rule from the fringes. The far left is "far" for a reason; the majority of people don't agree with them! You need to be inclusive to rule in this country, which I think is a good thing. If you want the Democratic party to just turn into one of those eternal third parties who prefer philosophical purity over compromise, be my guest...


We need to crush the 2 parties who are in control with their singular platform, give everything to the rich. One party says they are going to do it and they do it. The other says they aren’t going to do it but they do it anyway.
 
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v0lume4

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Jul 28, 2012
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If you get some time, you many want to read Shattered. If the stories in that book are only half true, I think a lot of Dems who voted for her would be glad Trump won. If she ran the WH like she did her campaign we would be in a whole lot of trouble.
Fascinating. Per your recommendation I'm interested in the book. Is it a good read? Are the negative reviews on Amazon (the book average rating is sitting at 3 stars) from disgruntled voters?
Even though they used different angles, Bernie and Trump were running on the same antiestablishment message.

Somewhere between the Republican Right and the Democratic Left is the group that either sat out this election or pushed Trump into the White House.

We may have a three- or four-party system in my lifetime.
Agreed. During the election, in-person as well as on this forum, I told people that Bernie Sanders was similar to Donald Trump, considering they both ran on an anti-establishment message. Same track, different trains. Unfortunately, my saying this prompted an explosion from folks that disagree. "Bernie is NOT like Donald Trump. How dare you" is the attitude I remember. So much for trying to be objective.
Keurig is gross I think. I've never had a cup of Keurig coffee that I have enjoyed. I recently got a stove top peculator that I am enjoying as well. It's tricky though to time it correctly so the coffee doesn't get too weak or strong.
I haven't mastered the stove top coffee making process. My coffee comes out tasting terrible. :( I have a moka pot. Just like proper espresso machines, this little percolator is a pain in the rear to master. Are you using a moka pot or a traditional percolator?
 

jpietrzak8

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2010
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Dayton, Ohio
We need to crush the 2 parties who are in control with their singular platform, give everything to the rich. One party says they are going to do it and they do it. The other says they aren’t going to do it but they do it anyway.
Again, let me ask: what are you going to replace them with? We have plenty of philosophically pure third-parties available. They never gain power, though, because they are never popular with a majority of voters.

The Republican and Democratic parties have done the hard work over the decades to establish themselves across the country, to understand what people in each of those areas wants out of their government, and to put together a platform that is acceptable to the widest array of voters possible. Thus, they are granted political power in this country.

To achieve such a feat demands hard work. It demands time and effort, people devoting a large chunk of their lives just to setting up and maintaining such a large organization. As such, it also demands financial investment.

Right now, both parties are indeed facing unprecedented voter anger due to their corrupt policies! The time has never been better for reform. Which has been happening; the rise of the Tea Party and of Trump show that the Republican party is shattering from within, and the Sanders movement on the left is starting to make progress. But again, there's the problem -- the Tea Party does not attract a majority of voters by itself. Trump does not attract a majority of voters (as dramatically shown by his Electoral College win). Sanders does not attract a majority of voters. Just stating that the current system is flawed is not enough; just stating that you follow a strict political philosophy is not enough. You've gotta do what the major parties have always done, find a compromise position between an array of competing philosophies, and weld together a majority out of that...
 

ibookg409

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Fascinating. Per your recommendation I'm interested in the book. Is it a good read? Are the negative reviews on Amazon (the book average rating is sitting at 3 stars) from disgruntled voters?

Agreed. During the election, in-person as well as on this forum, I told people that Bernie Sanders was similar to Donald Trump, considering they both ran on an anti-establishment message. Same track, different trains. Unfortunately, my saying this prompted an explosion from folks that disagree. "Bernie is NOT like Donald Trump. How dare you" is the attitude I remember. So much for trying to be objective.

I haven't mastered the stove top coffee making process. My coffee comes out tasting terrible. :( I have a moka pot. Just like proper espresso machines, this little percolator is a pain in the rear to master. Are you using a moka pot or a traditional percolator?
It takes a lot of practice. A lot of good Kona beans gave their lives while I practiced.