This forum has ruined my keyboard and monitor plans...

[Roadster Lewis]

But potentially saved me buying the wrong products.

I am trying to slim down my home office set up from the current work laptop/screen/keyboard and personal iMac/keyboard. I am going to replace my iMac with a MacBook Pro and ideally, I want to have one monitor and keyboard that I can plug the work laptop/MacBook Pro into, via USB C, depending on which I am using.

I was going to buy a 27" 4K monitor (LG/Dell/Phillips) and the Logitech MX Keys. With the plan being to run the monitor in HiDPI mode to give the equivalent of the 1920 x 1080 I have on my iMac today, but with better resolution for photos etc.

However I have since learned that this resolution may leave the user interface looking a bit "big" on a 27" display. Based on my seating position and the 21.5" iMac I have now I could do with them being slightly bigger. I have plugged my MacBook into my 24" work monitor and the user interface looks OK at 1920 x 1080, but would obviously look better at HiDPI.

I expect that a 4K 24" monitor would be my best bet, but there doesn't seem to be any available that can be a single USB C connection to a laptop. I guess my second best option would be a 5K 27" monitor, which also seems difficult to find.

Is anyone using a 4K 27" screen at HiDPI 1920 x 1080? Do you think the user interface elements are too big? Is it a size worth considering?

I have also learned that the Logitech MX Keys, and other non-Apple Bluetooth keyboards, cannot be used on the log in screen when FileVault is enabled (for me FileVault is a necessity). The other work around seems to be to use the Logitech USB dongle, however if I am having to use a USB port, I would rather use a USB keyboard and not have to deal with charging batteries etc. So I have a few questions:

1. How is the MX Keys to use day to day with FileVault enabled? Is it a big issue?
2. Can anyone recommend a wired USB keyboard that plays nicely with both Mac and PC? Does the Apple USB A1243 keyboard play nice with PCs?

 

[Stephen.R]

I expect that a 4K 24" monitor would be my best bet, but there doesn't seem to be any available that can be a single USB C connection to a laptop. I guess my second best option would be a 5K 27" monitor, which also seems difficult to find.

The LG Ultrafine 4K is practically the only 4K 24" left on the market. It does use USB-C. It's not particularly cheap compared to its (now discontinued) competition.

 

[Amethyst1]

Is anyone using a 4K 27" screen at HiDPI 1920 x 1080? Do you think the user interface elements are too big? Is it a size worth considering?

Definitely too big. Not worth considering at all IMO. Heck, I find 1920x1080 on 24" too big LOL.

A cheaper alternative to the UltraFine, if you can find one, is the Dell P2415Q. I use one and like it a lot. No USB-C though.

 

[Roadster Lewis]

The LG Ultrafine 4K is practically the only 4K 24" left on the market. It does use USB-C. It's not particularly cheap compared to its (now discontinued) competition.

It is expensive and doesn't seem to play well with PCs.

 

[Roadster Lewis]

Definitely too big. Not worth considering at all IMO. Heck, I find 1920x1080 on 24" too big LOL.

A cheaper alternative to the UltraFine, if you can find one, is the Dell P2415Q. I use one and like it a lot. No USB-C though.

Thanks, I guess that could work with a docking station...

 

[Stephen.R]

Thanks, I guess that could work with a docking station...

I have 2 P2415Q's. I'd buy a third if I could find one domestically.

They're fantastic. If you can find one I recommend it, but I've mostly stopped recommending them because they're so hard to find now.

 

[Roadster Lewis]

That seems to be the problem, there aren't many monitors 4K available in 24". I expect that the panel makers are no longer making the panels.

 

[Amethyst1]

That seems to be the problem, there aren't many monitors 4K available in 24". I expect that the panel makers are no longer making the panels.

Which begs the question why this is the case.

 

[Stephen.R]

That seems to be the problem, there aren't many monitors 4K available in 24". I expect that the panel makers are no longer making the panels.

There was only ever LG AFAIK. The Dell uses an LG panel internally I believe. New, your only option (AFAIK) is the LG UltraFine. Oh, or Asus had a 4K 21.5" panel, that here at least, is priced about $5K (some of that is down to import duties Im sure, but not all of it)

If you're in the US, NewEgg occasionally still has sellers listing P2415Q's, and I imagine there's some on eBay or similar.

 

[Stephen.R]

Which begs the question why this is the case.

Most external displays are made for the PC market. Apple specifically contracted LG to make "for Mac" displays when they exited the display market themselves.

Average PC users just want a cheap and cheerful display. Gamers want higher-performing panels, but they typically seem to be worried first and foremost about whether it has RGB lights on the back of it, then about the refresh rate, and lastly about what resolution it supports.

I'd suggest most PC gamers probably can't run their games at full-resolution/full-quality graphics. So there's no point getting a really high resolution panel (i.e a 5K 27") if you're going to be running the game at 1080p anyway.

 

[Stephen.R]

It doesn't help OP much, but I'm hopeful Dell will update/refresh their 8K/32" panel to support a single-cable solution using DSC.

I'd like even more if they shipped e.g. their 5K/27" unit again, but that seems even less likely I guess.

 

[Roadster Lewis]

I suppose that someone, maybe LG, may start doing something with the 4.5K 24" panel from the new iMac...

 

[Amethyst1]

Oh, or Asus had a 4K 21.5" panel, that here at least, is priced about $5K (some of that is down to import duties Im sure, but not all of it)

Isn't that one an OLED?

 

[Amethyst1]

I suppose that someone, maybe LG, may start doing something with the 4.5K 24" panel from the new iMac...

I sincerely hope so

 

[Amethyst1]

I'd like even more if they shipped e.g. their 5K/27" unit again, but that seems even less likely I guess.

I recently got a second-hand UP2715K - even with two cables it's nothing short of awesome.

 

[Stephen.R]

Isn't that one an OLED?

Ah, yes it is. I hadn't read that far.

And I must apologise. It's only $4780, my bad!

I suppose that someone, maybe LG, may start doing something with the 4.5K 24" panel from the new iMac...

It'd be nice if someone did, but given that they dropped the 21.5" 4K display, while still making the panels for the iMac, I'm not holding my breath for that one.

I recently got a second-hand UP2715K - even with two cables it's nothing short of awesome.

Oh nice!

 

[Amethyst1]

Just a thought that's been bugging me - none of the 24" UHD monitors are actually 24, but 23.5, 23.6, 23.7 or 23.8 inches (according to manufacturer's specifications). Why those different but extremely close panel sizes?

 

[xraydoc]

Is anyone using a 4K 27" screen at HiDPI 1920 x 1080? Do you think the user interface elements are too big? Is it a size worth considering?

A 27" 4K at HiDPI 2560x1440 looks perfect. No reason not to use this resolution. Yes, it's a "scaled" resolution, but the M1 slices through it without a single stutter.

I'm using a 32" 4K at 3008x1692 and it also looks amazingly sharp and the M1 never drops a single frame.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Ditto 4K scaled to look like 1440p. Looks great. New GPUs should be fine with it.

 

[Roadster Lewis]

Thanks.

Just a thought that's been bugging me - none of the 24" UHD monitors are actually 24, but 23.5, 23.6, 23.7 or 23.8 inches (according to manufacturer's specifications). Why those different but extremely close panel sizes?

My guess would be it is either down to who paid for the initial panel development, or to do with how many panels they can fit onto the mother glass.

A 27" 4K at HiDPI 2560x1440 looks perfect. No reason not to use this resolution. Yes, it's a "scaled" resolution, but the M1 slices through it without a single stutter.

I'm using a 32" 4K at 3008x1692 and it also looks amazingly sharp and the M1 never drops a single frame.

Thanks, I wasn't expecting this to be HiDPI, as it is less than 2x 1920x1080. Given that this is the readily available size, with monitors with good connectivity, maybe I am best just buying one from somewhere with good returns and just trying it. The scaled resolution on my Retina MacBook has been OK, but I haven't been using that for any serious work.

Does anybody have any views on keyboards?

 

[Amethyst1]

Thanks, I wasn't expecting this to be HiDPI, as it is less than 2x 1920x1080.

Any scaled resolution uses the HiDPI assets in macOS. It's just not perfectly pixel-doubled anymore but still looks very good.

 

[Amethyst1]

A 27" 4K at HiDPI 2560x1440 looks perfect

Try that on a 27" 5K. That is perfecter.

 

[Stephen.R]

Any scaled resolution uses the HiDPI assets in macOS. It's just not perfectly pixel-doubled anymore but still looks very good.

Right, and a HiDPI scaled monitor at an uneven ratio (i.e. not exactly @2x) will still look better than a 1x monitor at the same res.

e.g., 4k "looks like 2560x1440" will look better than pretty much any native 2560x1440 display. The larger the panel the less "better" it will look, obviously.


If you're doing pixel design work, my understanding is that you should be a lot more concerned about using a perfect pixel doubled display/resolution combination (i.e. 1080p on 4K, 1440p on 5K, etc).

 

[Roadster Lewis]

I do the odd bit of retouching, but nothing too detailed, so it should be OK. I can always also change the resolution as needed.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Back to keyboards...

You can use an Apple keyboard on Windows but by default the Windows key ends up in the wrong spot as Command becomes the Windows key, and Option is Alt. You also don't get buttons like Print Screen, scroll lock etc. I think if it has a num pad you have to use the onscreen keyboard to hit num lock, not ideal. Of course you can probably find key mapping software to overcome this.

But you might want to get one that supports both easily. Some the smaller players like my Plum Niz support both Mac and PC layouts with a key combo. Outside of the MX keys I can't think of any Mac and PC friendly non-mobile device focused keyboards from the big players.