This is an interesting situation to wrestle with...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by JayMysterio, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #1
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...itle-stirs-debate_us_58b44e14e4b0780bac2bb431

    So this is a girl who is transitioning to become a boy, who wants to compete with boys, but isn't allowed to. He supposedly has an unfair advantage when he's forced to wrestle girls. Side note, the parent that filed the lawsuit claimed they were worried about the safety of their daughter competing against Beggs. Problem there, the daughter isn't in Beggs weight class and would never actually compete against Beggs. So, Beggs does want to compete against boys where he would have a possible disadvantage, but is forced to compete against girls where he has a supposed advantage. :confused: Hmmmm
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #2
    Beggs was playing by their regulations so I can't at all blame Beggs. congrats on the win.
     
  3. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

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    Agreed, but the system itself is a bit ****ed I'd say. He's a boy whose taking testosterone. Now I'm by no means a biology expert, but shouldn't that physically mean it'd be more fair letting him wrestle other guys?
    And two more things
    1) Regardless of the biology (albeit something that could be a fair arguments within the sporting scene, though I'd say it could be solved by some weight class fiddling instead), it must be pretty bummer to be told that you have to compete in the girls' tournament when you're a guy. Imagine (if you're a woman) walking into the ladies' bathroom and being told to leave and go to the men's restroom instead cause that's where you belong. If you're a man obviously imagine the reverse. Pretty weird feeling that must leave you with, right?
    2) If he's single and straight, it's gotta be a sort of ambivalent feeling too though... "They're treating me as if I were something other than what I am and identify with... But I get to touch girls".

    Obviously number two is a ridiculous joke, and I'm not being serious about that btw.
     
  4. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    biologically a girl taking testosterone and identifies as a boy, things are not easy on either side
    since it was the girls division that means another girl forfeited, I would say guys might refuse to wrestle him as well......
     
  5. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #6
    I think she (he) should be ineligible because she (he) is taking testosterone. That is a banned substance for international sports competition. A male taking it would be ineligible.
     
  6. JayMysterio thread starter macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #7
    Under the rules, he actually has a waiver, because it's to help him transition.
     
  7. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    It doesn't seem appropriate for a girl taking testosterone to be a boy should be wrestling with the girls. It does seem like it could be dangerous- even though there are weight classes muscle mass differences between male and females are very different. From a sports perspective, his record indicates an unfair advantage with a nearly undefeated record. From a social perspective, if you accept people should be allowed to choose their gender, especially if they're undergoing hormone treatment, forcing him to compete with the girls might be considered humiliating.

    My opinion- let him compete in the boys league. Problem solved. Easy.

    While I could see many people allowing the biologically female boy to compete with boys, I wonder how people would react to the reverse- a biologicallly male female competing with females. That probably wouldn't go over as well.
     
  8. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #9
    I agree, but under Texas state law, they can not ban someone taking hormones under a doctor's care. It's a strange situation.
     
  9. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #10
    I literally have no idea how this can be made fair. A boy transitioning to a girl will still be stronger than other females and a girl transitioning to a boy will likely still have a disadvantage.
     
  10. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #11
    No congrats from me. She was born a girl and is wrestling girls, she she gets the added benefit of testosterone/HGH. If the other girl wrestlers were taking HGH they kick kicked off the squad.

    It's not a level playing field.
     
  11. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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  12. Zenithal macrumors 603

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    While exogenous hormone usage is banned, the amount this individual likely takes won't have an effect on strength aside what is achieved likely from the normal parameters of a male. Furthermore, the IOC and many sport leagues don't consider something such as HRT (which is what this is, essentially) in men to be a breach of regulations. Some men see a drop in levels at around age 38-40 and decline, requiring the use of HRT to get their testosterone back to normal range. The illegal use of a testosterone substance like testosterone enanthate, which is popular with dopers, are dosed at super-physiological levels, far exceeding what's normal. Assuming this teenager completes the transition, they will be no stronger than a biological male of the same height, statue and lean body mass. The point of steroids is to induce more muscle growth and expand the time of recovery, as well as messing with the body's capability of partitioning nutrition.

    You'll have a hard time finding a state regulatory body on high school sports that would rule against a student-athlete going under hormone therapy that's deemed medically necessary according to the physician. Plenty of diabetic student-atheletes use insulin, a hormone that can be abused for super physiological growth of lean mass.
     
  13. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #14
    She played & won by their rules.
     
  14. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #15
    The rules are wrong.
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #16
    Then change them ,
     
  16. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    They did. She got a waiver for using testosterone.
     
  17. Carlanga macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    She is biologically female so she has to fight other females. Doesn't matter what gender she fells she belongs since the rules are by sex and not gender. She shouldn't be allowed to fight anyone if using testosterone. This is a close contact sport so I can see why it would be separated by sex.
     
  18. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #19
    I'm working on it.
     
  19. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

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    #20
    I respect your opinion regarding sex and gender in the context of sports, although as another poster pointed out, with the proper treatment he should effectively have the body of a boy post-transition

    However - can we please stop saying "she" when we talk about someone whose gender is male? The pronoun used surely shouldn't also be dependant on birth sex.
     
  20. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #21
    I read 56-0 record for a wrestler in Texas..I feel sorry for the colleges the wrestle against whatever college he wrestles at. Boy or girl that kids has got some skills
     
  21. Huntn macrumors P6

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    #22
    He should be allowed to compete against boys.
     
  22. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #23
    Men spare with women all the time in Judo - it's not a big issue, except (1) women are fearless and (2) women really don't understand the fragility of the male groin. Or maybe they do.

    I don't see what the problem would be allowing him to compete with other boys. It's all based on weight categories anyway, which removes any sporting disadvantage due to the the most relevant sexual dimorphism in humans.
     
  23. Raid macrumors 68020

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  24. Carlanga macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    #25
    1) I disagree she is kinda like a boy, she not a boy nor will she ever be one, even w surgeries and hormone treatments. That's the biological reality. This is a close contact sport divided by sex. She has an unfair advantage against others because of her treatments. She wants to fight with boys then they need to create a new category.

    2) Why? I'm talking biology and I can freely use she for a female. Using preferred pronouns affects understanding of the biology. If you want you can use neutral pronouns, but preferred pronouns are just that... preferred.

    3) I have no issue speaking to a transgender individual w their own preferred pronouns, but when it's to understand the biological situation of something I prefer to use the pronouns for sex and not gender.
     

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