This is Democracy?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Democrats have a lock on hereditary monarchial rights.

    John Dingell is retiring after 59 years in Congress, but his wife, Debbie, was just elected to the seat.

    http://t.co/2mrJaSd2n4

    Let's not even talk about the Kennedy's.

    Next up, the Clinton Coronation.
     
  2. NickG420 macrumors regular

    NickG420

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    #2
    Well...Not to point out the obvious...But we are not a democracy...

    We are, by all definitions, a Representative Republic...:eek:

    I know Mind = Blown....
     
  3. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #3
    Yea, that's Glenn Beck's favorite screed. Of course, it is pedantic and meaningless in normal context, which is why the Fox News groupies eat it up.
     
  4. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #4
    This seems to indicate we meet the definition of democracy: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
     
  5. Roric macrumors regular

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    #5
    Did you forget the Bush dynasty? First George Sr, the George Jr, and now there is talk of Jeb waiting on the sidelines. Plus grandpa Bush (Prescott) was a US Senator from Connecticut 1952-1963.

    Peter Schweizer, author of a biography of the family, described the Bushes as "the most successful political dynasty in American history."
     
  6. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #6
    This is Democracy?

    I found this article to capture the absurdity of our election system particularly well:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/05/us/among-voters-the-big-loser-is-washington.html

    But many voters said that after watching the infighting in Washington — and considering the fact that Mr. Obama is heading into the twilight of his presidency — they did not think that anything made much of a difference.
    “They just don’t seem to get anything done anymore,” said John Miller, an independent in Iowa voting at the Red Oak Fire Department. “All they do is fight between each other and don’t get anything done. So we — and I — need something different in there. Everything needs to change.”
    Shari Pizarro, 49, a Democrat who works as a waitress in St. Petersburg, Fla., said she voted Democratic but had few hopes for Washington — now or in the future. “ I have no clue what’s going on in D.C., but what I do know is that you can’t really trust anyone,” she said. “It’s all screwed up no matter who’s in the White House.”

    And in Racine, Wis., Jeffrey Kowalczuk, a 56-year-old account representative for a trucking company, seemed no less disillusioned than Ms. Pizarro after voting for Republicans in that critical state. “I’m just tired of all the fighting and bickering,” he said. “We’re all Americans. It’s just getting old with all that stuff.”
    The interviews came in an election in which many analysts were expecting a notably low turnout, reflecting the distress many people have voiced about the state of the government. Again and again, voters said they were exhausted after having been deluged with attack advertising on television, emails pleading for money and election pamphlets clogging their mailboxes. Such bombardments only reinforced their disenchantment with Washington, they said.

    “There’s no such thing as a good politician, I’m sorry,” said Christi Miller, 43, an Obama supporter from Hot Springs, Ark. “They may start out that way, but I think once you get in and once you get painted with bribes, and you have to take care of the people who contributed to you. ... ” Her voice trailed off. “They would care if they were actually running for office for the right reasons,” she said. “They’re running for office for money and power.”
    In New Hampshire, Jennifer Giles, 48, a Republican, said she thought candidates spent too much time worrying about their own futures. “I think people are much too focused on getting re-elected instead of doing their job,” she said.

    Some voters blamed both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue for the problem. “It’s as dysfunctional as you probably can get,” said Ken Berra, 60, a Democrat and lawyer in Kansas. “You have a president who unfortunately is a lightning rod — the Republicans, no matter what he does, don’t like it.”
    Kenneth Haynes, 60, offered a similar view as he came to vote at Luling Elementary School in Luling, La. “They’re always calling each other the bad guy when they’re all the bad guy,” he said.



    It's like watching farm animals getting to choose which side of the pen to stand in the day before walking into the slaughter house. Worse and worser are the only options, so we change back and forth in a desperate attempt to make a difference.

    ----------


    And now the nephew, George P:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/midterm...exas-election-accomplishes-bush-family-first/

    Our only hope is they will eventually run out of middle initials. Only 29 generations to go!

    Yup, no dynasty there
     
  7. NickG420 macrumors regular

    NickG420

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    #7
    In the strictest sense of the word, the system of government established by the Constitution was never intended to be a "democracy."

    This is evident not only in the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance but in the Constitution itself which declares that "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government" (Article IV, Section 4).

    Moreover, the scheme of representation and the various mechanisms for selecting representatives established by the Constitution were clearly intended to produce a republic, not a democracy...

    By popular usage, however, the word "democracy" has come to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. In this sense the United States I guess could accurately be called a democracy...

    To the extent that the United States of America has moved away from its republican roots and become more "democratic," it has strayed from the intentions of the Constitution's authors....

    Whether or not the trend toward more direct democracy, in which the citizen vote directly on ballot referendums, would be smiled upon by the Framers depends on the answer to another question:

    Are the American people today sufficiently better informed and otherwise equipped to be wise and prudent democratic citizens than were American citizens in the late 1700s?

    By all accounts, the answer to this question has to be an emphatic "No."
     
  8. Menel macrumors 603

    Menel

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    #8
    Indicates, albeit incompletely.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#United_States
     
  9. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #9

    Thoughtful post. As usual, one of our systems isn't working and rather than change it, we embrace a bandaid with its own unintended consequences. Propositions were intended to get around the corrupting influence of special interests. But I can't remember the last time a top 3 proposition wasn't heavily influenced or outright written by out of state interests. How's that for special?

    We need to give up our obsession with geography and embrace a system that lets us vote for beliefs. Stops living in a fantasy world where we think we can prevent parties, and puts parties front and center. Proportional representation.
     
  10. satcomer macrumors 603

    satcomer

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    #10
    I don't know how many times I have to correct adults but we DO NOT live in. Democracy! We live in a Representative Republic! We have always been this way and we was not even a voting for the common man in the beginning. Time you take of a Civics Class again. ;)
     
  11. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #11
    If you are curious about how this happens, this might help.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. NickG420 macrumors regular

    NickG420

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    #12
    I love this movie!!
     
  13. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #13
    If the Congressional seat in question really was a "hereditary" one, there wouldn't be any need to hold an election, would there?

    I mean, when Queen Elizabeth in England dies, its not like the Brits are going to hold an election to see who succeeds her. Thats the meaning of a hereditary monarchy.

    There was plenty of opportunity for the voters of Dingell's district to elect somebody from the Republican party, the Green Party, or an independent. They chose to elect Mrs Dingell, presumably because they are satisfied with whatever brand of representation they felt the Dingell family was giving them.

    If you want to blame anyone - blame the voters of that District. But doing so doesn't really seem very democratic, does it?
     
  14. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #14
    You wanna fix this problem?

    Ban ALL private money and PACs from elections. Institute term limits and proportional representation. Gut the 18th century political party mentality and start over with a 21st century electoral and congressional system.

    Until then we will continue to live in a corporatocracy and not a democracy.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    Well we've got a third Bush gearing up for a run, as well as a second Clinton. The American "democracy" is showing in plain terms that it is an oligarchical mechanism with dynasty starting to rear it's head.

    We've got another 8 years of NOTHING changing unless the people take to the streets during the next collapse.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    I agree that the mess we are in today is a result of apathetic or ignorant voters.
     
  17. Wild-Bill macrumors 68030

    Wild-Bill

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    #17
    These midterm elections were the most expensive in American history, as far as campaigning/misinformation goes.
    Simultaneously, the voter turnout was abysmal.

    It will take another collapse or two to wake most people from their self-involved slumbers.

    I don't know what it will take to get money out of politics.
     
  18. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #18
    Incorrect. The system is very heavily stacked towards the two major parties. Gerrymandering, franking privileges, lobbyists, etc. An election is fair and free only when all parties have an equal place at the table for the citizenry to decide.

    If our elections were fair and free, we wouldn't see a 93% re-election rate in the House (and slightly lower in the Senate.)
     
  19. magbarn macrumors 68000

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    #19
    One of the recent examples of the craziness that comes from the uninformed electorate directly voting is the crazy passage of prop 47 here in CA. Most of the voters fell for the lighter sentence for drug use (which I'm fine with) and voted yes for it. However, the American idol, dwts short attention span crowd failed to read into the rest where previous felonies such as identity theft up to $900 will now be treated the same as a traffic ticket.
     
  20. sjinsjca macrumors 68000

    sjinsjca

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    #20
    Bzzt: ad hominem, with extra points for mentioning Beck and Fox News. Add Koch Brothers and you'd have won a donut.

    How is it pedantic and meaningless? It's absolutely correct. We elect representatives to get stuff done on our behalf within the confines of the rule of law, rather than rely on mob rule. That's the very definition of a republic.
     
  21. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #21
    Bzzt. Where's the ad hominem? I checked twice and still don't see it.

    Sounds like our system to me.
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    So does every democracy in the civilised world.
     

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