This is going to shock you coming from me....

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Ok, as some of you know I have been working on an IBM ThinkPad at work running Winblows XP. Well, this new rumor of no new PowerMacs at MWNY has really pissed me off. I have to go on a rant, so listen to everything before you hit that quote button. ;)

Problem. Windows XP is not nearly as bad as we make it out to be. It is intrusive as hell, and the file system sucks, but if you know Windows, then it is all second nature anyway right. Well, XP is stable, and with an Aqua theme is not that bad to look at on a daily basis.

Now I MUCH, MUCH prefer the beauty, function, and stability of X. It is far more secure, and much less intrusive. Now here is the real BIT*H!

I am sick, and tired of the second rate hardware. Is there really that much of a difference in price between a 100 MHZ motherboard for an iMac and one that supports DDR with a 200MHZ, or 266MHZ Bus? Is there really that much of a price difference in ATA66 and ATA 100 or 133 for that matter? Is there really that much of a price in DDR memory and SDRAM that Apple cannot give us a pro system with the most modern memory out there! We pay TOP DOLLAR for our Macs, and damit, I am tired of getting yesterdays hardware. Sure the G4 is a much better proc than the PIV, but is it really that much better than an Athlon?

Is X86 running Linux that bad? I have never really run it so I don't know. I do know that the Celeron 500 ThinkPad that I have at work is faster on the net, faster in opening apps than my iBook 600. Now I prefer the iBook because of the OS, Firewire, the size and design of the system itself. But damn, there are some nice designs coming out of the PC camp. Apple better get off its A$$ and give us what we need and want.

I am just on a rant, and tomorrow will probably get a blue screen at work, and have to reinstall Winblows, but damit, this is getting to be rediculous. Sure, the PowerMac Dual 1GHZ is 300% faster in Photoshop than a PIV, and sure a PIV from Dell is comperable in price to the G4, but not an Athlon that I build. I can build a dual Athlon with ATA133, up to 4GB of DDR 333, Firewire, and USB2, 4 to 6 HD, and do it for 1500 less than the Dual G4, and according to Barefeats and others, the Dual Athlon will outperform a G4.

GET IT TOGETHER APPLE! The OS is wonderful, and I can't wait for Jaguar, and I am loyal, but I am getting tired of the second class hardware.:mad:
 

MacAztec

macrumors 68040
Oct 28, 2001
3,023
1
San Luis Obispo, CA
Gulp...

Do not go to the dark side ;)

Yea, I know what you mean. If only Apple could use Athlon processors, omg, that would rock....

The only reason I use apple is because it looks good, and has a good OS.

Those new Athlons compared to the G4 just beat the living f*ck out of em
 

SilvorX

macrumors 68000
May 24, 2002
1,701
0
'Toba, Canada
i agree, y pay $1600 CDN for an emac with older (than current pc technology) technology than something such as a new HP puter, when u could build a top of the line puter for the same price, with 7200 rpm 80 gig drive, dvd-r/cd-rw drives, nvidia vid card, etc etc for bout the same price (or slightly over)? most computer users (who price out stuff) would select the win pc over the mac, as backtothemac said, we should get current technologies.
XP isnt the worst os in the world (as some ppl make it sound like), its heck alot better than win 98/ME (of course better than win ME), it really rarely has the ol bsods appearing, but appz still crash (especially IE), but i could easily leave my computer on for a couple days with XP, which i could never do on win 98 (since i only have 192 megs of ram).
since i'm a peecee user right now, i'm fed up with the crud of windows all together, even tho checkdisks fix some of the problems at times, but i'm still a huge mac fan and osx is more superious than xp of course, but apple just needs newer hardware
 

SilvorX

macrumors 68000
May 24, 2002
1,701
0
'Toba, Canada
Re: Gulp...

Originally posted by MacAztec
Do not go to the dark side ;)

Yea, I know what you mean. If only Apple could use Athlon processors, omg, that would rock....
athlons kik ass...inexpensive and ALOT faster than any cruddy p4
i remember someone telling me that if motorola stopped making the G4 chip, apple might get amd to produce chips for them since i heard amd and apple have a pretty good relationship, the only way i'll get another pc is if i dont have enough money for an emac, then i'll build a puter with a linmodem n install linux (i have linux cds collecting dust) n learn linux
 

MacAztec

macrumors 68040
Oct 28, 2001
3,023
1
San Luis Obispo, CA
Tell me....

Would it be so bad to build a peecee with an athlon and all the goodies with Windows NT or XP?

I mean, i know XP is ugly, but i am sure they have aqua themes. But windoze blows
 

buffsldr

macrumors 6502a
May 7, 2001
621
0
Shocked? Actually I am surprisngly indifferent. Whatever you like, dude. Loyal? What is there to be loyal to? It is a product. If you like it than use it. Happy computing pc or mac.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
Re: Tell me....

Originally posted by MacAztec
Would it be so bad to build a peecee with an athlon and all the goodies with Windows NT or XP?
IF you really must build/get a peecee, use win2k on it. Hardware compatibility with the os is not an issue, where it still can be with heXPiss. Don't always believe the prices they list for building a system either. I know there are issues with the dual Athlon mobo's and other hardware (like video cards and such). Until Gigabyte comes out with a dual processor mobo for the AMD XP processor, I won't even consider it.

AMD chips ARE superior to the intel processors, anyone that knows anything about building peecee's knows that. Only the large makers use intel chips (unless you get an incredible deal on a pentium). Compare the prices of the top end chips from both. The cost difference is between $300-$400+.
 

tjwett

macrumors 68000
May 6, 2002
1,880
0
Brooklyn, NYC
i've felt this way for a long time. i love the OS and the design but it gets harder everyday to justify paying $4000 on machines that are severely outdated, hardware-wise. the next few months of Apple's announcements are going to determine my future as a customer. i genuinely dislike Windows but i dislike feeling like a chump who's being ripped off even more. i need power machines to sustain my career. soon i will simply not be able to afford to wait for Apple to catch up.
 

ShaolinMiddleFinger

macrumors 6502a
Oct 12, 2001
745
0
I agree with you on changing XP's GUI to aqua. That's what I did. I'm still sticking with Apple. Everything is definately easier on Mac.
 

Choppaface

macrumors 65816
Jan 22, 2002
1,187
0
SFBA
Re: Re: Gulp...

finally somebody breaks the double standard :D
(even if a few facts are jumbled here and there :\ )
 

Beej

macrumors 68020
Jan 6, 2002
2,139
0
Buffy's bedroom
I'm here for the OS and the quality of the hardware. If I wanted raw power, I'd build myself and AMD system. But I don't - I want something I enjoy using.
 

Grokgod

macrumors 6502a
~Backtothemac

I totally agree with you!

Its crazy to think that at the HUGE prices that APPLE is asking for their computers, that you get OLD tech. I mean really OLD!

Of course the prices for DDRAM isnt that high or too high to put into PowerMacs..hell they do it for Pcheeses.

And the cost is much less than APPLE!

I am exhausted with waiting for APPLE to get up to where Pcheeses were years ago, its sickening and really boring.

Its obvious that APPLE is playing some sort of weird game with consumers trying to squeeze the most profit possible from making units with the oldest and cheapest hardware. Then making outlandish claims of superiority.

But this is a dangerous game with a lot of money on the line!
The MAC loyal are the ones responsible for allowing this to continue.
By continueing to buy APPLE despite the RIDICULOUS costs for ancient hardware.

If APPLE thinks that they have to yet again HOLD back the hardware upgrades to
to clear obselete stock that should have been put out to pasture ages ago.

If APPLE doesnt understand that the LOW sales on PowerMacs means that no one wants them! No one wants to buy those antique models at insane prices.

Then they better stop spending money on AD's and APPLE STORES.

Because No one is going to buy these models.

iMac sales are way down with the PowerMacs.

When the Mac Loyal realize that they are being treated SO poorly.
They will send a message to APPLE.

GET it TOGETHER!

Personally, I am not buying another single ITEM from APPLE
Till they upgrade the hardware to an intelligent level!
I will not be taken for granted and I am not paying asinine prices for hamster hardware.

Get that through your head , APPLE!

Remember, the consumer is KING.

SEND the message and we will get the hardware, because it exists and is out there, waiting till we stop buying the crap.

Unless there is DDRAM and speed bumps on the PowerMacs then just ignore everything I just said! :)

Meanwhile I will check out this Pcheese aqua theme, how does that work?
 

iapple

macrumors regular
Oct 31, 2001
112
0
Re: ~Backtothemac

Originally posted by Grokgod
I totally agree with you!

Meanwhile I will check out this Pcheese aqua theme, how does that work?
Aiyaiyai! Apple has one helluva angry customer!:eek: Well, I won't stop you from switching. If sheer numbers and speed you're after, get an AMD machine. Just don't scream when you see that XP screen come on! That's one helluva ugly OS!

I'm going to stick with my PowerBook G4, because it is a beauty, I love using it, and I'm sure Jaguar will dramatically improve the performance! Long live Apple! King of user experience!
 

cb911

macrumors 601
Mar 12, 2002
4,122
3
BrisVegas, Australia
i'm with you on this one. when i told all my friends that i got a PowerBook and how much it cost, they were all like 'holy cow!! do you know how good a PC you could have got for that much?!!'

anyway, i need a Mac for college. but in another 1 1/2 years when i'm done i'm going to consider a PC agian. it also depends on the money situation of course, but if the PC world is way ahead, then thats where i'll be.
 

synergy

macrumors regular
Jun 12, 2002
248
0
I agree with Grokgod and Backtothemac.

Apple and Motorola have been dropping the ball big time in terms of delivering solid performing hardware. Yes the OS is nice and thats what mainly keeps me with the platform. XP is just too much for me to stomach. Especially now with Microsoft and their Palladium initiative its all disgusting. Linux is a joke on the desktop. So I guess I will still run my Wallstreet G3 250Mhz computer with OS X. I may get a processor upgrade. Or if a 1Ghz Titanium book comes, I may seriously consider that.

I will stick with my G4 400Mhz tower though at most adding one of the G4 800Mhz or 1Ghz processor upgrades unless Apple comes out with some decent hardware.

Problem is Apple sees the slack in demand as an economy thing. Which it partly is. But they also need to realize people don't want the same spit rehashed.

:D
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
Originally posted by Beej
I'm here for the OS and the quality of the hardware. If I wanted raw power, I'd build myself and AMD system. But I don't - I want something I enjoy using.
That is why I have one of each at home... My TiBook is for everything that I do day after day. From email, web browsing, to scanning images and 3D/4D works. The AMD rig is for games and that is IT!
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
Originally posted by cb911
i'm with you on this one. when i told all my friends that i got a PowerBook and how much it cost, they were all like 'holy cow!! do you know how good a PC you could have got for that much?!!'
Have them look at an AlienWare rig and tell you that you paid too much... :rolleyes: Those things are MORE then PowerMac G4 towers are.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Oh, Alpha I agree that Alienware is very expensive. Fact is that I can build their top Athlon system for almost half the price. I love OS X. I don't really think that I can live without it for any length of time. I am just very cautious about the future of Apple right now. They cannot continue to offer old tech at top dollar. ATA 66 in my iMac! WTF! Those are not expensive tech.

Just imagine if the current Dual 1GHZ G4 had
ATA 133
DDR 333
266 MHZ FSB
Rapid I/O

Can you imagine the performace boost!

That is the point that I am trying to make.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
4,556
0
Natick, MA
DDR333 (PC2700) memory is just becoming available at a reasonable price. Just a few months ago, it was very difficult to find PC2700 memory, as well as systems that could use it.

I agree that Apple should be using the top end technologies in their towers, but most consumer level users really don't NEED it. They might want it, but most of them don't use the applications that truely benefit from those items. The PowerMac towers, as well as PowerBook systems SHOULD have the faster/newer technologies first.

I see the delay in Apple releasing them as being cautious. How would people feel if Apple released the boards too soon, and didn't test them well enough, only to have 25% or more develop major issues?? People would be screaming for blood.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
I agree with you Alpha, but damn, PC's have had at least some form of DDR for almost two years now. And we still don't have it. I am just frustrated with the slow as$ rollout of hardware. ATA 66 on an iMac, 100 MHZ Bus on the iBook. It is just pissing me off, thats all.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2002
1,772
11
Illinois
Originally posted by AlphaTech
I agree that Apple should be using the top end technologies in their towers, but most consumer level users really don't NEED it. They might want it, but most of them don't use the applications that truely benefit from those items. The PowerMac towers, as well as PowerBook systems SHOULD have the faster/newer technologies first.
F*ck need. I don't need a G4 anymore than I need another finger, but you can bet I WANT one.

Odds are I'll never use 1/10th the power of what I'm going to buy, but if it isn't top of the line, new tech, it probably won't be soon, or worse, it won't be apple.
 

Backtothemac

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 3, 2002
4,206
0
San Destin Florida
Exactly mcrain. I can say this. For 2999 I can get a Dell or Gateway that has a 2.53 GHZ PIV, 1GIG of DDR, 120GB Harddrive. Firewire, and USB2.0, 5.1 Surround sound speakers, 3 year warranty, and you ready for this. An 18.1 Inch FP display. And 7 PCI slots. Now how in the hell can I justify a 133 bux, 512 ram, 80 gb, no speakers, and no monitor, no USB2.0, for the same price!
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2002
1,772
11
Illinois
Originally posted by Backtothemac
Exactly mcrain. I can say this. For 2999 I can get a Dell or Gateway that has a 2.53 GHZ PIV, 1GIG of DDR, 120GB Harddrive. Firewire, and USB2.0, 5.1 Surround sound speakers, 3 year warranty, and you ready for this. An 18.1 Inch FP display. And 7 PCI slots. Now how in the hell can I justify a 133 bux, 512 ram, 80 gb, no speakers, and no monitor, no USB2.0, for the same price!
But the corralary to that is that if the apple had the faster bus, more ram, ddr, better faster hard drive, and firewire 2 (maybe even usb2), then I'd buy it for that price, and then spend the extra on a new monitor and speakers or hook my old ones up.
 

sparkleytone

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2001
2,307
0
Greensboro, NC
good to see ya back mcrain.

okay look. on this whole pc issue. this is my stance...

yes the latest p4s are the most powerful processors on the consumers market. no AMD can't touch them anymore. For a while it was a good race, and I still would not buy Intel because AMD is better price:performance. yes, the PC world has got all the power and speed in the world. but, the OS isnt there. It looks better than before, but thats about it. Windows does not talk nice with other OS's, and altho XP is as stable as its been, its still not stable. I beta tested XP, i thought it was nice, I was even excited. Then i was introduced to OS X. I now own an iBook that is plenty powerful, and I run linux on my PCs. Linux is another story...

Linux is a good stable OS.......for servers. It is good for command line operation and thats about it. Its got all the great things of UNIX, but also fails to break away from its shortcomings. It is not nor will ever be a desktop OS.

OSX is where its at. UNIX stability with Apple's intuition for interface. This is where my main point lies. OS X is an operating system that SAVES YOU TIME. Its not about how much the hardware costs, its not about the power of the hardware. Its about how it is utilized. There are near 3GHz p4s out on the market now that blow away the competition. But there is a bottleneck, and that is the GUI. Windows is counterintuitive and unstable. Linux just plain blows. These things waste time. Time is a mostly intangible yet extremely expensive asset. While people are on their PC's waiting for it to reboot, figuring out how to do some simple operation, or reading some HOWTO on linux operations, i am going to be getting work done on my Mac. It offers me no complaints, it just does what I tell it to. That is the revolutionary thing about Apple.

So go get your Alienware and whatnot. Have a fast machine and hopefully be happy. You will be back, because everyone else is lightyears behind.
 
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