This is what Trumpocracy looks like

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    WARNING: Extremely NSFW video (language)

    Screen Shot 2016-08-03 at 8.52.30 PM.jpg
    Pretty frightening. But don't worry...this is just people responding to political correctness!
     
  2. citizenzen, Aug 3, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    It comes as no surprise to me that some of Trump's supporters are crass louts.

    But i will not tar all of his supporters over the actions of the worst of them.

    I view Trump supporters The same way I view Muslims.

    The vast majority are decent people.
     
  3. sodapop1 Suspended

    sodapop1

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    #3
    Are you seriously comparing Trump to a religion?
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Muslims. I'm comparing Trump supporters to Muslims.

    (The vast majority of which are decent people.)
     
  5. sodapop1 Suspended

    sodapop1

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    #5
    I guess you can call them Trumpites and their religious doctrine is the Art of the Deal. :)
     
  6. Praxis91 macrumors regular

    Praxis91

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    #6
    https://vid.me/5YzY

    They don't hold a candle to the violence and idiocy of leftist/progressive protestors.
     
  7. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #7
    Wow, some of them represent the worst this country offers.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 3, 2016 ---
    Goes to show there are people that represent the worst on both sides.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 3, 2016 ---
    Before you get all giggity, Trump supporters are not free from idiocy and violence. Please note this is coming from a conservative site.

    http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf...rs-pepper-spray-non-violent-protesters-video/
     
  8. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Posted yesterday with video:

    At today's Trump rally in VA a Trump supporter answers #LoveTrumpsHate chant with HATE WILL WIN before shouted down​
     
  9. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #9
    There are violent people in all walks of life. The right, the left, top, bottom, middle, etc.

    Trump has used some disgusting, inciteful words, sometimes as figures as speech I believe, sometimes not. Ultimately I believe individuals are responsible for their own actions- they need to own them and others need to recognize that.
     
  10. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #10
    Like holding up a mirror to parts of PRSI.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 4, 2016 ---
    Damn, they better get this intervention started soon.

    [​IMG]

    From this morning:

    Michigan
    Clinton 41%
    Trump 32%

    New Hampshire
    Clinton 47%
    Trump 32%

    Pennsylvania
    Clinton 49%
    Trump 38%
     
  11. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #11
    Agree. The people in the video are not well. Politics has nothing to do with it.
     
  12. Huntn, Aug 4, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #12
    The Trump message for the suckers- Willie Robertson (Duck Dynasty): No matter who you are, Donald Trump will have your back!

    The Democrat Party has an eye opener confronting them, because the Democrat party is all about INCLUSIVENESS: working class, families, women, minorities, LGBT, respect for the military, respect for allies, and other arguably good ideals.

    Do Trumpites feel that both major parties don't represent them, so they latched onto the outsider snake oil salesman because they really think the Donald has their back, and if that fails, they just want to burn it all down?

    They did not go to college, some did not graduate from high school. These days if you don't work for an education greater than high school, unless you are a successful entrepreneur, your life is going play out at the bottom rung of society. That's a fact, and no magic man, especially a con man who has never done anything for this demographic EVER, or anyone for that matter, has an instant solution to fix that.

    Look at the demographics of Trump supporters, these people should be democrats, how did they slip through? Were they Democrats at one point who feel the Democrat Party failed them? For example the evaporation of the Middle Class? In a changing world, it's up to the Democrat Party through effective programs to show this group there is a viable path forward. The key is education for a modern world. The tradional Republican message does not address these people at all, hence the outsider and outsider mauraders hijacked their party.

    Personally I feel that there is a strong tradional poor white male current running through this group: anti-inclusiveness, xenophobic, anti-minority, and resentment of women who don't know their place. I'm willing to admit this is incorrect, if someone can produce a decent counter.

    Who Are Donald Trump's Supporters, Really?
    *Thank you Atlantic Magazine for another great article!!
    Quote:
    The second Trump-voter story focused on the typical demographic breakdowns: gender, race, and age. Back in December, a Washington Post analysis found that Trump's support skewed male, white, and poor. The male-female gap was 19 percentage points (47 percent support among men vs. 28 percent among women). He won a whopping 50 percent of voters making less than $50,000, 18 percentage points ahead of his support with those who earned more than that amount

    Inclusiveness is a dirty word with thes folks, hurting no-college educated men. How ironic is that?
    Although white men without a college education haven’t suffered the same historical discrimination as blacks or women, their suffering is not imagined. The Hamilton Project has found that the full-time, full-year employment rate of men without a bachelor's degree fell from 76 percent in 1990 to 68 percent in 2013. While real wages have grown for men and women with a four-year degree or better in the last 25 years, they've fallen meaningfully for non-college men.

    [​IMG]

    .
    --- Post Merged, Aug 4, 2016 ---
    For a moment, consider the integrity of the Republican Party elected officials. An outsider waltzes in who can best be described as The ultimate RINO, who basically threw out the GOP platform, abandoning most things the GOP cherishes, and for much of the current leadership, it's oh well, he's our nominee, let's make the best of it. How important are principles anyway?
    :oops::rolleyes:
    --- Post Merged, Aug 4, 2016 ---
    ...misguided decent people? ;)
    --- Post Merged, Aug 4, 2016 ---
    Wow. :oops:
     
  13. Scepticalscribe, Aug 4, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #13

    Actually, I think that there are a number of factors which have transformed the lives of 'poor, or ex-working-class white males' and to blame the Democrats for them misses the point. The transformations have been both economic, and socio-cultural-legal (which also mean political).

    Economically, in former times, these guys had jobs, - stable, secure jobs, that allowed them to raise families and have a place in their ordered world. Those jobs - well paid working class jobs, secure jobs with a sort of career progression have been all but wiped out.

    To compound matters, socially, culturally, those whom white working class males could feel superior to, and 0- culturally, were allowed to feel superior to - basically, women and people of colour, who lacked basic rights until recent decades - have had their lives transformed in those very same decades, as opportunities - political, educational, economic, - have opened up for them, as legal and economic barriers have been removed.

    So, that resentment draws deeply from the changes brought about by a mixture of drastic socio-economic transformation.
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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  15. Huntn, Aug 4, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    I agree. Post WWII in the United States was a time of plenty, unparalleled growth with factories popping up across the country. A college degree was not required to live a middle class life, but that's mostly gone now. Globalization is a huge factor, large groups of people thrilled to work for pennies. It's all equaling out around the world, but unfortunately, it means those who have more, have to give up some of it, and those at the bottom in the wealthy society may lose most of what they have. And then there is inclusion, women and minorities rightfully getting a larger piece of the pie. It's got to come from somewhere.

    I'm not an economist, but my impression is the GOP message, work hard and succeed is true, but ultimately false if everyone took them up on it. I've said this before, if tomorrow everyone launched themselves into 4 year degrees, I don't think there would not be enough good jobs to go around. I don't know how India is today, but there was a point there where college educated people outnumbered the good jobs available, hence the educated ones migrated to the good jobs.

    My impression is that this is a hard fact about a society based on Capitalism. Not everyone can live the good life. But if everyone got energized, I have no clue what changes might come about. My impression, which may be baseless is that the only chance of equality comes through socialism, with the caveat that people are motivated to work, that corruption is not allowed, the ones that would be at the top in a Capitalist society would have to accept having less, but more than enough to live a fruitful life, and the focus becomes "we" over "me". Of course that would mean all of the personal needs of individuals would have to be secure. I have no real clue if that is possible to achieve.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 4, 2016 ---

    ...page can't be found.
     
  16. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #17
  17. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #18
    Gosh even when I disagree with you I can't really do anything because of your soothing avatar. Each time I see one of your posts I need the immediate relief of a sip of good coffee... and then I forget the point I wanted to make in reply of your original argument.
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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  19. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #20
    I don't think that Capitalism in itself is about living the good life. Living the good life is more a personal objective than an absolute of Capitalism. Even the definition of a 'good life' is not absolute; I know several good people that gave up a lot of money to enter the public and non-profit sector to help the community. While certainly I am not talking about missionaries in poor countries or even neighborhoods, and while I am not saying that they went for the pauper lifestyle, they still live a good life. (*)
    Capitalism is simply a mean of handling production (and therefore resources), it is implied that some will have more than others because capitalism is technically speaking feeding on itself through competition.

    (*) ADDENDUM: I don't think that "good life" can't be described in term of resources, even in a capitalistic world
     
  20. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #21

    ah thanks i didn't see the original citation had got doubled up during the insert. actually i like the poltiico piece one about manafort's slip on CBS even better...

    "Look. I support the speaker and I know after next week, I'm supporting him as a candidate for president, too," Manafort said on "CBS This Morning," before quickly correcting himself amid laughter during a discussion about the Republican presidential nominee's refusal to outright endorse the House speaker in his primary against Paul Nehlen on Tuesday.​

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/paul-manafort-endorses-paul-ryan-mistake-226657

    It's getting so you can't tell what Manafort's card is even when he puts it on the table...

    So that's what clinging to God and their guns looks like these days, eh?
     
  21. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #22
    "Some having more than others" is a condition humans have experienced since the beginning. I don't envy the rich for having more than me. But there are government policies that can reduce the wealth disparity and create safety nets so that the poorest aren't living in abject poverty. Solve those issues and capitalism is a fine system to work under.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 4, 2016 ---
    When I watch him try to explain away Trump's stumbles, I see a man working very hard for his money.
     
  22. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #23
    I agree 100%. Since I joined the public sector I saw a lot of stuff that made me re-think some of my perceptions of the community. While I am certainly for the "work and get more stuff" I also realize that some people start at a clear disadvantage. Of course, they need to work harder than anyone else (they're not excused for being lazy), but at the same time I believe that the rest of the community needs to help at least to an extent.
     
  23. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #24
    Part 1
    Frankly I am amazed at people who spend their lives serving others. Can I give them 100% credit or should I credit their maker/biology? One of my frequent topics in this forum has been directed at how much free will/choice do we really have? I have a wife who is a giver, she LOVES giving to (worthy) people, of herself and of our cash. :) Should she be admired because she chooses to give or is giving a built in part of her nature? Is this something you chose to do? Or is this simply who you are?

    Part 2
    My impression is that the appeal of Capitalism is competition and wealth, focused on grabbing all I can. Those who excel will love it as they build personal fortunes. But when philosophy and morality are inserted into the equation, questions arise, that I've been asking for a while, but don't claim to have a definitive answer: How much material wealth does it take to live a good life? To be a success do you have to acquire a mountain of wealth? What makes you a successful human being? How do you define "glutton"? Right or wrong, this is my impression of what motivates virtually the entire upper rung of society- Not how can I make "us" better, but how can I best serve myself?

    We are not much advanced above primitive animals. What raises us up is the higher thinking of technology, morality, philosophy, and considering our place in the universe. I've also said, this is why we'll need a conversion to Humans 2.0 , distancing ourselves from our animal possibly mortal nature, before significant changes will happen. :)
    --- Post Merged, Aug 4, 2016 ---
    It's called spin and misdirection: Everything is just peachy in the Republican Party. :rolleyes:
     
  24. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #25
    Tough topic.


    I used to believe in external control, in other words that my future was controlled by external factors and that I could influence just a small portion of what happened in my life. It took me a couple of bad events, a lot of introspection, and especially the reading of Viktor Frankl’s “Men’s Search for Meaning” to radically change my viewpoint.

    Frankl’s book is fundamental, one of those books that should be mandatory reading, and that I am very sorry I haven’t read in my 20s. Frankl was a Nazi camp survivor, and the founder of one of the three great schools of Psychology. In his book he recalls not only what he lived through – we have no idea of the suffering – but what was his approach to the whole situation. In brief, after observing who was living and who was dying, he was able to find a meaning to the terrible events that were surrounding him, and he was able to correlate meaning to survival. Those who had some glimpse of meaning survived; those who gave in, died.


    In his book he said something that I am now carrying around with me every day:

    “Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible.”


    It completely changed my perspective on life and now I believe with all my strength that I am in control with of my life. I was making the huge, fatal mistake of believing that “controlling my life” (or “controlling destiny”) meant controlling the external events that surround my life. Those are just events; my life is not the sum of events. My work is not the sum of events. My family is not the sum of events. My life is the meaning of my life, or in other words how I answer the question of what is the meaning of my life.


    Now I try to take charge to whatever happens to me, or whatever is a potential failure. For example, for years I tried not to talk too much because of my strong foreign accent. In the past few years I made out of it a strength (sort of); I noticed that when I met new people they became curious, they asked questions, and they listened. I controlled the fear of the unknown person and I made my accent a powerful networking tool. I can’t change the fact that I have a foreign accent, which is in part debilitating, but I can certainly find positives in it (see Schwarzenegger and his trademark “I’ll be back”).


    Everything contributes to what happens in my life, and I can change the lenses with which I see the world.


    For the factors beyond my control, I honestly can’t generalize. I can just approach things, and see the crisis (I believe we live in a continuous “crisis”) as it happens, and regulate the intensity of my approach to that specific crisis. If it is something clearly outside of my control (let’s say another recession), then I won’t try to solve it unless I believe that I can give a meaningful input. Of course, the best thing is preparation and planning. We know what is important (health, family, money etc) and we should plan ahead for the bad days, trying to not live in fear. I might not control a financial crisis, but by careful planning I might be able to survive a little bit better when it happens.

    As Dave Ramsey says, “If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else.”

    And if everything goes bad, very bad, we can still react in a way that would make us an example for our friends or for future generations, giving a meaning to everything.


    Well, capitalism is simply a way to handle resources. It's an economic theory, which is not even applicable in its purest form. It all comes down to what the single person believes. We are all entrusted with some sort of valuable. May it be economical, physical, or mental. The same strength can be used for good and for bad. Look at Bill Gates. He's rich in a way that I can't even imagine. He worked hard to get there, he was prepared, and conquered his wealth one way or another. Now he is using his wealth do to something good. HE could use the same amount of money to do something really bad. In reality I am more afraid of poor/middle-class men with an obsession for money. Some of them would back stab you for a paycheck, while someone like Buffet/Gates/Trump/etc. would not even think about us. It's all about prioritizing, and deciding what should we care for.
    For example we probably disagree on 90% of the issues - as our previous flame demonstrated. However, I am 100% sure that you truly care about the issues, and you really want to live in a better world/community. Let me assure you, so do I. This is what really matters, anything else - including our MacRumors' fights - is just arguing about methods... or, just a very controversial way of brainstorming!
     

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