Tide turning towards supporting Obamacare

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogslobber, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. dogslobber macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #1
    Folks, we're hitting a major turning point as Republican consensus is starting to support the ACA which we were lucky to get under President Obama. This piece of legislation is possibly the most important piece of American social legislation since the SSA back in 1935.

    Senator Kennedy's tireless work will finally become a permanent par of the American Dream with this new found Republican support.

    http://www.vox.com/2017/1/9/14213884/obamacare-repeal-uncertain
     
  2. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #2
    very premature optimism.

    GOP is staking their entire existence on repeal.

    99.9% expect a repeal will pass and voted in law in January.
    (I am sure with long delay, maybe a year)
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #3
    Repeal & replace with some merging that protects the people.
     
  4. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #4
    People, yep. It's def about the people.

    Evolution: Romneycare ... Obamacare... RepublicanScaredOf2018
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #5
    What pisses me off is they just yap about repeal & nothing else. YES I WANT IT REPEALED. but sure as hell work to keep the good parts
     
  6. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #6
    That's what they're afraid of. Not being able to come up with something better. Gettng unelected over it. It was easy when the Senate wouldn't go there last term and they could keep repealing it in the House to no particular effect except they could say they were trying.

    Now, they own the place and there's pressure to get it done but what is the "it" part? And they don't know. They do know they can't just pull the rug out. Hence as @elistan had said in this post in the other thread on this matter, they're leaning towards repeal with a delay in the effective date so they can say they did it without actually doing it. I guess that's progress. I mean if they do that they've painted themselves (or a successor Congress) into a corner.

    Of course the people are not going to thank them if in the end the GOP has to reverse their fake repeal because,,,, because,,, they couldn't figure out how to get something else off the drawing board that could pass muster in K street, pass the House and Senate, acquire the President's signature and withstand the inevitable Supreme Court challenge LOL.

    These guys are sitting around in the Congress right now going "how the hell did Obama do that?". Answer: because the people wanted the coverage and said so to Congress? Yeah. And they still want the coverage. So the government needs to find a way to incentivize the signups for it that are needed from the young and healthy in order to make it economically feasible at a more affordable premium. They should focus on that and forget repeal, it would save trouble.
     
  7. Solomani macrumors 68040

    Solomani

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    #7
    So what are the "bad parts" that Republicans want to get rid of? And what exactly is their "better replacement" for those bad parts of ACA?
     
  8. elistan macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Huh. Check this theory out. If the Republicans vote to defund, then delay that going into effect, then lose out to Democrats in the midterms - what are the chances that they trigger the defunding to happen just as the Democrats regain control of Congress, so that they can then trumpet how so many Americans lost health insurance while Congress was under Democratic control?
     
  9. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #9
    Republicans are in for some rough times. If they defund/repeal Obamacare they will throw millions of people off their insurance (including me) and including some Trump supporters who do not want to be thrown off their insurance. Isn't that the very thing Republicans were complaining about...that people were being thrown off the plans they liked and couldn't keep their doctor?

    How do they square that now?

    Option two is to keep the things they like and somehow figure out how to pay for that. Can't really eliminate preexisting conditions or lifetime caps without everyone being in the system with some kind of mandate, so good luck!

    They are between a rock and a hard place. Eliminate it, lose votes. Keep it, lose votes. Lose votes no matter what you do! Quite a nice box they have put themselves in.
     
  10. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #10
    Two options:

    1) Keep it like it is and let it crumble under its own weight and then blame democrats

    2) Replace it with a single payer system

    What not to do:

    1) Repeal it without a replacement bill in place on the same vote. Democrats will complain that Republicans caused the system to fail even though it's in the process of failing right now.
     
  11. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #11
    Do you realistically see the Republicans doing either of those things? I don't.
     
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #12
    Bad? Mandate. Replacement? Band aids
     
  13. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

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    #13
    It's easy to have big balls and talk repeal when you know the motion will fail.

    Balls ain't so big now that the GOP owns it all and the DNC can just sit back with a bag of popcorn.
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #14
    Well yeah except for the point @elistan makes regarding the timing of a repeal with delay in effective date. The Democrats have to hammer on that not landing so "repeal with no replacement" ends up effective on their watch.
     
  15. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

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    #15
    I believe in letting the GOP dig their own hole. If the DNC wants to be viable they would be better off taking this tactic and getting their nose out of the Clinton's ass.
     
  16. kobalap macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Keeping the good parts is the tricky bit.

    Covering pre-existing conditions and no lifetime caps - those don't come for free just because congress wrote a law. The only way to offset the costs is to bring more (young/healthy) people into the pool - people who pay premiums but don't require much in terms of services.

    Another set of people who cost a ton of money are people who go to emergency rooms and that are not covered. They figure, hey, why bother signing up for insurance if I can go to the emergency room and get treated anyway?

    So how do you get young/healthy people to sign up? How do you get people to take responsibility for their own healthcare instead of relying on the government paying the emergency room bill? Yep, you make healthcare insurance mandatory.

    I hate huge government programs as much as the next person but this problem is a tough nut to crack.
     
  17. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #17
  18. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #18
    Which super PAC do you work for?
     
  19. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #19

    A republican who gets that it is a complex problem.

    Obamacare is flawed certainly, but the attempt was a healthcare solution that might just garner bipartisan support.

    Many of the other conservative folks here just parrot talking points. Whether you personally support the law or not ( I prefer single-payer) I appreciate you acknowledging the complexity.
     
  20. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #20
    I agree it's complex, but I can't get behind requiring anyone to purchase a service that they don't want.

    I'm a physician. I haven't been to see another physician, in over a decade. I have never been to the emergency room in my life (apart from working there).

    Now I understand how catastrophic it could be financially if I did get very sick or injured; and I carry health insurance. But someone who doesn't is not wrong in not wanting to pay for a service they're very unlikely to use.

    If everyone is to be forced to pay, then people should pay their own ticket and rates should be based on health status. It's sad, but the healthy young adult shouldn't be dinged financially (while trying to make it on their own) so we can pay for the 59 year old, obese diabetic smoker who keeps needing to have his toes amputated and spends more time in the hospital than out of it.

    We also should take another look at whether we need our hospitals to look like 5 star hotels. There's no reason you should expect a 30" flat screen TV in your hospital room. Nor should you require an MRI that can play Pandora to you while you get your scan. These things cost millions and millions of dollars and do little to nothing for my ability to care for a patient.

    Look at Germany, hospitals are pretty basic. Get people in, get them healthy, and get them out. They're not comfortable places in the way that many US hospitals are (nor do they need to be IMO).
     
  21. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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    #21
    Look, it's not like they've spent the last 6 years since taking over congress trying tirelessly to pass rational replacement legislation only to be vetoed every time by the big bad O. Repeal is the only word in their vocabulary. Passing repeal legislation when you have a president who will sign it is easy peasy, coming up with a replacement that won't cost them the next election is where the problems arise. They had 6 years so far to come up with it and haven't bothered to connect two brain cells together to make it happen and now they're expected to do it by the end of January. Good luck to them, and to America.
     
  22. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #22
    But that's just it....no one has a crystal ball that can tell who will get sick, who will get injured, who has some unseen genetic defect, thus insurance. For the same reason that people need auto insurance. You just never know who might hit you. Sure someone could go without health insurance, but I guarantee that they will still hit up someone like you for help when they get sick. And if it's serious and cost in the tens of thousands and they can't afford to pay you, then what? And if you see 100 patients just like that, then what? At what point do you and the hospital you work at start going bankrupt when you provide expensive service that is not paid for?

    I seriously doubt adding pandora to a machine adds millions and millions to the cost. As for TV's, just checked Best Buy and found a bunch of 32 inch TV's for $100 and that's retail price for a single unit. I'm sure a hospital could do even better with a large purchase.
     
  23. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #23
    You’d think with all the money saved from endless free, or damn near free, entertainment people would have some to spend on not dying. Maybe Republicans can come up with a HeathCareGO app and people will be more excited about it.
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #24
    Honestly, other than financials, why in god's name do you want to be a physician? Your posts here have historically been nothing but contempt for the concept of healthcare being a human right.
     
  25. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #25
    It’s really, really hard to end health insurance benefits for 20 million Americans, especially when you don’t have a plan for what comes next.

    ...Something to think about unless they insist on proving they are as stupid as we think they are.
     

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