Tiger vs. Longhorn


eric_n_dfw

macrumors 68000
Jan 2, 2002
1,507
55
DFW, TX, USA
Pretty even handed article. It's nice to hear from Pat Norton since his departure from Tech TV. (what a shame what happened to that channel) :(
 

Palomino

macrumors member
Mar 6, 2005
55
0
Adelaide, South Australia
Nice article, but really doesn't tell the reader much about anything. Just puts in one article what has been said in many.

I'll be interested in Win 64 (now in Beta) and how it rates and how games improve as a result. Some 64bit Open GL games for mac would be good to.

Cheers
Jordan
 

Monk Edsel

macrumors regular
Apr 7, 2004
193
0
By the time Longhorn comes out, Tiger will be old, and the latest revision of OS X will be about to drop, if it isn't already out by then, so I am not sure what the point of this article is.
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,341
0
Bay Area, CA
I noticed that the article discusses the WinFX environment and the Avalon presentation layer, along with the 3D accelerated Aero interface, but no inclusion of the Core technologies on the Mac side, most notably Core Image improvements to Aqua. And what is it with four-letter A words for UI names? Are they TRYING to get us to swear at our computers? ;)
 

dukeblue91

macrumors 65816
Oct 7, 2004
1,225
0
Raleigh, NC
Nothing new here with the exception of Patrick Norton having something positive to say about OSX.
It still boggles ones mind to keep on seeing these comparisons
Vaporware vs. an actual OS! go figure.
 

~loserman~

macrumors 6502a
Palomino said:
Nice article, but really doesn't tell the reader much about anything. Just puts in one article what has been said in many.

I'll be interested in Win 64 (now in Beta) and how it rates and how games improve as a result. Some 64bit Open GL games for mac would be good to.

Cheers
Jordan
Mac's will not have the ability to run 64 bit games. Even if such an animal existed or it was benificial to program a game as such.
Tiger is not a 64 bit OS...
How many times does that have to be said for people to get it in their heads.

Tiger will remain a 32 bit OS....
The only thing that is 64 bit in Tiger is its support for 64 memory for POSIX based apps...(Command line apps; server daemons and such)
Tigers kernel will reside in 32 bit address space so that it can still run on the G3 and G4....
 

~loserman~

macrumors 6502a
dukeblue91 said:
Nothing new here with the exception of Patrick Norton having something positive to say about OSX.
It still boggles ones mind to keep on seeing these comparisons
Vaporware vs. an actual OS! go figure.
Actually both are vaporware right now!

Granted Tiger will release first in about 3 months but... until it releases it is still vaporware.

Remember this too....
Longhype will beat Apple to a 64 bit OS....
Heck even Windows XP 64bit will beat Apple to a 64 bit OS.

I would expect given Apple's decision to still support the G3 in Tiger that Apple wont release a true 64 bit OS for at least 3 to 5 years.

That said 64 bit OS's are not that important unless you happen to be in the very small minority of users who can benifit from it.
 

mkjellman

macrumors regular
Oct 14, 2003
158
0
64 bit os-s arn't that great because there are so many drivers that are 32-bit based and can now not be used on a 64-bit os. so i think apple made the right decision to stick with 32-bit code and allow for the os to handle 64-bit code....
 

msconvert

macrumors member
Feb 27, 2004
58
0
dukeblue91 said:
Nothing new here with the exception of Patrick Norton having something positive to say about OSX.
I'm in this boat, plus this guy needs to go back to TV because writing is not his forte. What does this mean?

One of the reasons Apple's Mac OS X (news - web sites) is a fairly bombproof operating system is its combination of an Open Source UNIX kernel (the kernel is the heart of an operating system, and OS X's is based on mach and FreeBSD, if you're curious).
A combination of an open source kernel and what? He doesn't say...
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
5,889
0
Chicago, IL
~loserman~ said:
Actually both are vaporware right now!

Granted Tiger will release first in about 3 months but... until it releases it is still vaporware.

Remember this too....
Longhype will beat Apple to a 64 bit OS....
Heck even Windows XP 64bit will beat Apple to a 64 bit OS.

I would expect given Apple's decision to still support the G3 in Tiger that Apple wont release a true 64 bit OS for at least 3 to 5 years.

That said 64 bit OS's are not that important unless you happen to be in the very small minority of users who can benifit from it.

That and the first Beta of Longshot will be released in June. The reason MS has been pushing back the OS time and again was SP2 for XP. They had to focus on XP because of the security crisis that has pretty much engulfed the OS. For the love of god when the department of homeland security issues warning about your OS there is something seriously wrong. So SP2 with its various band-aids was at the forefront of Microsoft's attention. Now that that is out of the way they have IE7 to release. (Thank you FireFox.) which is much less of a chore.
In the mean time MS has picked up where they left off with Longshot and as a result FINALLY, they will be releasing a beta to the masses. I’m actually quite interested in seeing what they plan. General rule of thumb about MS’s software. By the time it hits beta the features are finalized. This release should give a good idea as to what they are planning. Up til now no one has really seen Aero (The GUI for Longshot.) in action. All we’ve seen is the base UI that longhorn will ship with. (e.g. If it doesn’t meet the minimum system requirements for Aero it will downgrade the GUI to an XP type interface. Just like you can downgrade XP’s GUI to a simple Win2K interface). So this summer we should see if Aero is a complete dud or if there is anything remotely interesting about it.
 

puckhead193

macrumors G3
May 25, 2004
9,210
432
NY
eric_n_dfw said:
Pretty even handed article. It's nice to hear from Pat Norton since his departure from Tech TV. (what a shame what happened to that channel) :(
G4 stinks! I also miss Leo and also Cris Perillo even though he was a bit weird, but very helpful, what ever happened to him...

if you get a chance u should read this its a good read about a "A Linux Geek Embraces Mac OS X"
 

stcanard

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2003
1,490
0
Vancouver
Yeah, but you do have to admit naming your OS after a pub is a pretty cool for a company the size of Microsoft...



(Yes, that is Longhorn's namesake, and I'll tell you after 3 days of hiking over too many mountains, that was the best beer I ever tasted).
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
73
Solon, OH
Apple has seeded beta versions of Tiger to its developers (meaning we know Tiger exists and isn't vaporware, even though it hasn't hit general release yet). Longhorn, on the other hand, still exists purely inside of Microsoft (and is therefore vaporware) because they haven't released a beta yet.

I'd say that both OSes have potential, but since Tiger's all but certain to beat Longhorn to release, Tiger wins.
 

SiliconAddict

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2003
5,889
0
Chicago, IL
wrldwzrd89 said:
Apple has seeded beta versions of Tiger to its developers (meaning we know Tiger exists and isn't vaporware, even though it hasn't hit general release yet). Longhorn, on the other hand, still exists purely inside of Microsoft (and is therefore vaporware) because they haven't released a beta yet.

I'd say that both OSes have potential, but since Tiger's all but certain to beat Longhorn to release, Tiger wins.

Well technically MS has release a couple versions of Longshot to developers. One at WINHEC last year and at some other dev conf. The name escapes me. But we all know how stable any alpha release is so take what you will of that info. *shrugs*

Also I don't think Tiger is all but certain. Its a done deal. There is no way in heck Apple will release Tiger fall of '06 which is the current mark for Longshot to go gold code. Heck at that point Apple will prob be well on their way to OS X.5 - Sabertooth. :D Personally I still think Longshot its going to be pushed back to 1st quarter of '07 though.
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
73
Solon, OH
SiliconAddict said:
Well technically MS has release a couple versions of Longshot to developers. One at WINHEC last year and at some other dev conf. The name escapes me. But we all know how stable any alpha release is so take what you will of that info. *shrugs*

Also I don't think Tiger is all but certain. Its a done deal. There is no way in heck Apple will release Tiger fall of '06 which is the current mark for Longshot to go gold code. Heck at that point Apple will prob be well on their way to OS X.5 - Sabertooth. :D Personally I still think Longshot its going to be pushed back to 1st quarter of '07 though.
Good point. Still, though, Longhorn isn't quite as far along in development as Tiger is. I'd say the odds are in Apple's favor of Mac OS X 10.5 hitting general release before or at the same time Longhorn does.
 

cyanide

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2005
234
0
Chicago
actually i think apple is going to be pacing their OS releases a little slower now. not slow, just in less rapid succession. how long have we had panther again? seems like just yesterday....
 

feakbeak

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2003
925
1
Michigan
Stop and think...

There have been quite a few posts comparing the release schedules for Tiger and Longhorn on this thread. Nobody seems to stop and consider the reasons for why this might be. Microsoft is huge, they have over 90% market share. They have to be very cautious with their software releases because they have to answer to large corporations with thousands of PCs spread throughout the world. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Microsoft's core market is business. Large enterprises were actually pressuring MS to release OSes less frequently, especially server OSes. It is extremely costly for companies to migrate OSes. I write IT software for migrating and managing software. While that does not necessarily make me an expert on this topic, I feel I have a different perspective than most on it.

With that said, yes, M$ has slid on their target date for Longhorn, they have trimmed down features and they have over-hyped it and started it marketing it way too early. In my opinion, their crime in the past has been marketing their OSes as being great for consumers. They are not, they are great for businesses who have entire departments to make sure they run well. Consumers who know what they are doing will also do well with Windows, but most consumers don't know what they are doing. That's why I think Apple is best for the average home user.

For us enthusiasts it is great that Apple has been releasing OSes and updates every few months. It gives us something to check out... we love getting the new bits. However, Apple does not support their old software. iLife '05 won't even run on Jaguar. If Microsoft pulled that crap many of you would be slamming them left and right. Would it hurt to try to be a little more even-handed? Microsoft was still supporting Win98 up until last year and they just recently stopped supporting NT4, or are they still supporting that one??? I'm not sure, because they have often pushed back the dates for which they will stop supporting older OSes. Isn't that a nice thing to do? :) My point is they certainly support their software much longer than Apple does.

I know there is the classic Microsoft vs. Apple competition going and it can be fun to compare the features of different operating systems. That's partly why I bought my Mac mini and why I enjoyed using Macs when I was in college. We are all going to have our preferences and opinions, and I make Windows crashing jokes too. Still, try to step back and use a little reasoning as well. Apple has about 5% of the market - that's a generous estimate. In comparison to M$, Apple is small. That is what allows them to be such a great company to follow. They are quick, nimble, innovative. It's fun, it's great for enthusiasts. It sucks for businesses! They like it slow and predictable, which is a big reason why M$ moves so slow and does not innovate as much.

And, no, I am not a M$ fanboy. They do many things that irritate me, such as brutally conquer the browser market and then let it stagnate. Thank god for Firefox getting a flame under their @$$ to get them working on IE7. I'm sure it'll have tabbed browsing better "find in page" functionality... simply pathetic.

I just wish more people posted the reasoning behind their views instead of just spouting opinions.
 
Nice post, feakbeak.

I wanted to add that Longhorn and Tiger seem to be more different conceptually than is often made out.

Longhorn is looking more and more like a 'feature set' rather than a distinct OS release. We have seen in recent weeks that Avalon and WinFS are going to come out for Windows XP, and it is quite possible that other features will turn into their own distinct products. Substantial OS changes get dropped (WFS) from the next OS release but they are substantial changes that are still being developed for newest and older OSs.

Tiger, by contrast, offers many new features which will not be available in any other Apple OS and it would not be unreasonable to ask when Spotlight, Automator or Dashboard are going to be made available to Panther or Jaguar users.

MS should receive fair credit for working to offer the features to those who don't want, need, or feel the urge to pay for the full feature set (though I don't doubt this is done for financial reasons and the nature of being the leviathan they are).

When the inevitable comparisons are made between Tiger and Longhorn (or whatever is around then) there should also be a comparison of where Jaguar / Panther stand compared to the features available through XP and the continual development and support offered. If you bought your OS at the start of 2002, for example, how does it measure up to the latest offerings available.
 

billyboy

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2003
1,165
0
In my head
Dont Apple have a different mindset totally to MS when it comes to OS development? Ignoring the magnitude of Apple´s achievement with the UNIX stuff, and ignoring how peaceful and fun computer use has been for me since being a Mac OSX user, I wont say Apple are better or worse than MS... but.

Apple completely reinvented their OS 4 years ago?
They managed to generate quite a lot of money and support and 10 million willing bug hunters by selling what until Jaguar, definitely Panther, has been a pretty stable work in progress?
They only charge $129 for a brand spanking new OS that comes with a dozen system wide languages.
Their legacy support is hardware oriented, ie backwards compatability of their latest OS with Mac machines that in the PC world would not even have enough disk space to load Longhorn?

Just a different way of thinking i suppose.
 

Lacero

macrumors 604
Jan 20, 2005
6,639
2
Longhorn will require at least a 5GHz PC to operate efficiently, compared to 500Mhz for OSX. And Longhorn will not implement their version of Spotlight until who knows when. Their avalon technology will be at least 7 years behind Quartz.
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
73
Solon, OH
billyboy said:
Dont Apple have a different mindset totally to MS when it comes to OS development? Ignoring the magnitude of Apple´s achievement with the UNIX stuff, and ignoring how peaceful and fun computer use has been for me since being a Mac OSX user, I wont say Apple are better or worse than MS... but.

Apple completely reinvented their OS 4 years ago?
They managed to generate quite a lot of money and support and 10 million willing bug hunters by selling what until Jaguar, definitely Panther, has been a pretty stable work in progress?
They only charge $129 for a brand spanking new OS that comes with a dozen system wide languages.
Their legacy support is hardware oriented, ie backwards compatability of their latest OS with Mac machines that in the PC world would not even have enough disk space to load Longhorn?

Just a different way of thinking i suppose.
Yes, Apple does have a different mindset, but you must keep these points in mind:

Apple was only able to reinvent their OS because they acquired NeXT.
A significant portion of the Mac OS X supporters are UNIX people that never used Mac OS 9 or earlier.
Apple may offer you a dozen built-in languages for $129, but for people in certain countries that isn't good enough.
All legacy support is hardware oriented to some extent, and Microsoft has a history of making bloated software.