Tillman versus the Wag the Dog experts.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by princealfie, Apr 24, 2007.

  1. princealfie macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #1
    Ranger: Told to conceal Tillman truth

    By SCOTT LINDLAW and ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writers 7 minutes ago

    An Army Ranger who was with Pat Tillman when he died by friendly fire said Tuesday he was told by a higher-up to conceal that information from Tillman's family.

    "I was ordered not to tell them," U.S. Army Specialist Bryan O'Neal told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

    He said he was given the order by then-Lt. Col. Jeff Bailey, the battalion commander who oversaw Tillman's platoon.

    Pat Tillman's brother Kevin was in a convoy behind his brother when the incident happened, but didn't see it. O'Neal said Bailey told him specifically not to tell Kevin Tillman that the death was friendly fire rather than heroic engagement with the enemy.

    "He basically just said, 'Do not let Kevin know, he's probably in a bad place knowing that his brother's dead,'" O'Neal said. He added that Bailey made clear he would "get in trouble" if he told.

    Kevin Tillman was not in the hearing room when O'Neal spoke.

    In earlier testimony, Kevin Tillman accused the military of "intentional falsehoods" and "deliberate and careful misrepresentations" in portraying Pat Tillman's death in Afghanistan as the result of heroic engagement with the enemy instead of friendly fire.

    "We believe this narrative was intended to deceive the family but more importantly the American public," Kevin Tillman told a House Government Reform and Oversight Committee hearing. "Pat's death was clearly the result of fratricide," he said, contending that the military's misstatements amounted to "fraud."

    "Revealing that Pat's death was a fratricide would have been yet another political disaster in a month of political disasters ... so the truth needed to be suppressed," Tillman said.

    The committee's chairman, Rep. Henry Waxman (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., accused the government of inventing "sensational details and stories" about Pat Tillman's death and the 2003 rescue of Jessica Lynch, perhaps the most famous victims of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

    "The government violated its most basic responsibility," said Waxman.

    Lynch, then an Army private, was badly injured when her convoy was ambushed in Iraq. She was subsequently rescued by American troops from an Iraqi hospital but the tale of her ambush was changed into a story of heroism on her part.

    Still hampered by her injuries, Lynch walked slowly to the witness table and took a seat alongside Tillman's family members.

    "The bottom line is the American people are capable of determining their own ideals of heroes and they don't need to be told elaborate lies," Lynch said.

    Kevin Tillman said his family has sought for years to get at the truth, and have now concluded that they were "being actively thwarted by powers that are more interested in protecting a narrative than getting at the truth and seeing justice is served."

    Lawmakers questioned how high up the chain of command the information about Tillman's friendly fire death went, and whether anyone in the White House knew before Tillman's family.

    "How high up did this go?" asked Waxman.

    Pat Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, said she believed former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld must have known. "The fact that he would have died by friendly fire and no one told Rumsfeld is ludicrous," she said.

    Tillman was killed on April 22, 2004, after his Army Ranger comrades were ambushed in eastern Afghanistan. Rangers in a convoy trailing Tillman's group had just emerged from a canyon where they had been fired upon. They saw Tillman and mistakenly fired on him.

    Though dozens of soldiers knew quickly that Tillman had been killed by his fellow troops, the Army said initially that he was killed by enemy gunfire when he led his team to help another group of ambushed soldiers. The family was not told what really happened until May 29, 2004, a delay the Army blamed on procedural mistakes.

    In questioning what the White House knew, Rep. Elijah Cummings (news, bio, voting record), D-Md., cited a memo written by a top general seven days after Tillman's death warning it was "highly possible" the Army Ranger was killed by friendly fire and making clear his warning should be conveyed to the president. President Bush made no reference to the way Tillman died in a speech delivered two days after the memo was written.

    A White House spokesman has said there's no indication Bush received the warning in the memo written April 29, 2004 by then-Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal to Gen. John Abizaid, head of Central Command.

    "It's a little disingenuous to think the administration didn't know," Kevin Tillman told the committee. "That's kind of what we hoped you guys would get involved with and take a look," he said.

    Mary Tillman told the committee that family members were "absolutely appalled" upon realizing the extent to which they were misled.

    "We've all been betrayed ... We never thought they would use him the way they did," she said.

    The Tillman family has made similar accusations against the administration and the military before, but has generally shied away from news media attention. The family had never previously appeared together and summarized their criticism and questions in such a public, comprehensive way.

    "We shouldn't be allowed to have smoke screens thrown in our face," Mary Tillman said. "You're diminishing their true heroism to write these glorious tales. It's really a disservice to the nation."

    "Our family will never be satisfied. We'll never have Pat back," she said. "Something really awful happened. It's your job to find out what happened to him. That's really important."

    Last month the military concluded in a pair of reports that nine high-ranking Army officers, including four generals, made critical errors in reporting Tillman's death but that there was no criminal wrongdoing in his shooting.

    Tillman's death received worldwide attention because he had walked away from a huge contract with the NFL's Arizona Cardinals to enlist in the Army after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

    ___

    Associated Press writer Scott Lindlaw contributed to this report from San Francisco.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070424/ap_on_go_co/tillman_friendly_fire

    NOTE: the masters of spin are back at it again, not caring about consequences they wreck their havoc of fake stories. Apparently the military exhibits the same syndrome as the corporation:

    * Callous unconcern for the feelings of others
    * Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships
    * Reckless disregard for the safety of others
    * Deceitfulness: Repeated lying and conning of others for profit
    * Incapacity to experience guilt
    * Failure to conform to the social norms with respect to lawful behaviors
     
  2. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #2
    Here is the United States Army oath . . .

    I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Should this even be surprising? This the least this administration has done. That poor family though. Can you imagine?
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    If true, this is a shameful disgrace. Make that two shameful disgraces.
     
  5. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #5
    To paraphrase Tolstoy:

    Happy families are all conformists; every unhappy family is suppressed in its own way.
     
  6. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #6
    I knew that Jessica Lynch was all spin... hmmm... Colbert to the rescue?
     
  7. FFTT macrumors 68030

    FFTT

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    #7
    The greater shame of this story is that Tillman's gruesome death was used to sell the war and used as a recruitment tool to mislead other young men and women to follow in his footsteps.
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    What exactly are you saying?
     
  9. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #9
    Don't think that I'm the master of maxims? It's up to you to decipher the meaning :D ;)
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    Oh please. What are you trying to say?
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #11
    he's saying "put me on ignore".
     
  12. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #12
    Even more ironic that he had some reservations about the Iraq war, and was openly critical of it.
     
  13. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #13
    Maybe his regiment deliberately killed him because of it?
     
  14. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #14
    No. But thanks for that. I would laugh, but he's still dead.
     
  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    Maybe you should have said that from the beginning instead of sounding like The Riddler.

    That said- no, I don't think his regiment killed him purposely.
     
  16. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #16
    But why not? Perhaps Tillman had some information which they didn't want to be found out and the guys wanted to off him for it.

    Remember, can't trust anything whatsoever. Assume the worst case scenario and you're often more correct than not.
     
  17. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #17
    Actually it's a civil service oath. I work for the State of California and I signed that same oath without the mentions of rank and specific branch of service. The President, officers of the Military, the Senate and most public servants take a nearly identical oath.

    Interestingly I've been looking for a job involving that level of patriotic commitment for a number of years.

    It never occured to me that I'd be signing that oath to be a Mac Hardware Specialist for a State University.:D
     
  18. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #18
    Sounds good. I'll assume you're full of **** then, and I'll probably be correct, right?

    Do you have any evidence whatsoever for believing that Tillman was killed "because he knew something", or are you just shooting in the dark? Something outside of tinfoil hat territory?
     
  19. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #19
    Evidence was suppressed so it's rather evident that something was going on. It's always classified under friendly fire so apparently there was something suspicious.

    Again assume the worst case scenario here. I think that Tillman found something that would put the war in a bad light so the regiment wanted to suppress him before the truth got out of hand.
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #20
    So you're accusing someone of murder with no evidence beyond what you think? :confused:
     
  21. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #21
    This is no objective truth so ironically I base this on my experience, intuition, and bemusement that this occured.
     
  22. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #22
    panda2520makes2520more2520sense.jpg
     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #23
    Your experience? Pray tell, what experience do you have that allows you this insight?
     
  24. princealfie thread starter macrumors 68030

    princealfie

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    #24
    Well there are many other empirical historical events that could point this similarity out.
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #25
    You're a not-so-artful dodger. Care to answer the question?
     

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