Time Person of the Year: 2011

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ucfgrad93, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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  2. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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  3. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    Whether OWS, the Arab Spring, or Europeans expressing outrage with the Euro crisis, this year has been notable for open demonstrations against perceived injustices. Even if you don't agree with the politics of a particular group, the ability and motivation to speak up openly should be lauded.
     
  4. mcrain macrumors 68000

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    The protests in Egypt and Libya managed to generate revolutions. Just because the OWS protests haven't led to violent overthrow of our government doesn't mean it is a joke. It is undeniable that the OWS protests have caused a massive shift in the political dialogue in this country and are doing more than the corporate media has ever done to expose the ways in which the incredibly wealthy and the corporations they control are blatantly ripping off the American people and being given unfair preferential treatment by the politicians they own. Furthermore, the tea party which managed to help the GOP take over state governments and the House never managed to be more than a few hundred people at any one place. The OWS movement is far larger, far more persistent, and appears to be legitimately grass roots movement politics. Oh, and don't forget the OWS movement and the efforts that led to the recall of three Wisconsin senators are basically the same.

    If Time is referring only to OWS, I think it is premature to name the "protester" as person of the year. However, as you mentioned, that "person" is protesting all over the world for any number of reasons.

    Next year, if OWS is successful in convincing the voting public that it is time to stop electing politicians who are bought and paid for by corporate puppet masters, then the person of the year should be OWS alone.
     
  5. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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  6. yg17 macrumors G5

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    What have they done in 2011? The Tea Party movement fizzled out almost as soon as it started.
     
  7. mrkramer macrumors 603

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    Have they even done anything this year? I haven't heard of much, besides politicians pandering to them, but no real protests that I know of.
     
  8. quagmire macrumors 603

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    Correct decision IMHO. The global protests were the biggest thing to happen this year. Not even the death of OBL comes close. Jobs was only considered due to his death. OWS may not be the most influential protests, but it certainly wasn't the reason why the protestor won.
     
  9. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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    This amazing reply is really the best way to put it. I don't agree with all politics but naming The Protester as the person of the year is a good move. Hell, as long as it's not some asshat basketball player, a kardashian, or bieber I'm good.
     
  10. Gelfin macrumors 68020

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    Kind of a philosophical question here: in Egypt and Libya and so forth, the majority did not protest, and the local news illegitimized the protest movements, characterizing the protestors as bad, lazy people who just wanted to make trouble for the good people who want to keep the status quo.

    I'm not even asking you to see any similarity. I'm just asking, if there were a similarity, how would you differentiate? What makes you believe that the foreign protesters were noble and the foreign media libelous shills of a corrupt system, except that that is how our news media described them to you? The same media that is now taking a similar line against local protesters to the one the foreign media did against the protesters in their own countries.

    We all like to believe we form our own independent opinions, but we are all influenced by how things are presented to us. What gives you the level of certainty you seem to have that your opinion, which does happen to precisely parallel the mainstream media narrative in the US, reflects absolute truth?

    If, say, the same global economic forces were at the root of all those protests, and the local media was responding in the same predictable way in every instance, how would you know?
     
  11. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    Local news? Unless you spoke arabic how would you know that? Most of what I heard here in the states was positive, with the exception of Anderson Cooper getting punched.
     
  12. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    Well, there are reporters who speak Egyptian Arabic who translated broadcasts from the Egyptian state media:

     
  13. Ugg macrumors 68000

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    Why such hatred of OWS? Do you view them as illegitimate just because they're American?

    I'm not sure that corporate funded protesters really count?
     
  14. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #14
    Why such hatred of the Tea Party? Do you view them as illegitimate just because they advocate a position you disagree with?

    And please don't spout the "corporate interests" sillyness. They are a legitimate grassroots group who are tired of government over-spending/over-indebtedness.
     
  15. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    What has OWS accomplished again? Besides the accumulation of garbage and human waste in public places?
     
  16. remmy macrumors 6502a

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    So you think that we should carry on as we are, do nothing and put up in silence. Big step backward.

    Laziness, stupidity and lack of thought means you sit at home or go to work as normal and don't do anything.

    They have not achieved anything - look at what they are up against at least they are trying.

    Accumulation of garbage is one of the BS excuses by the BS leaders to put you of making a difference.
     
  17. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    There's some complexity with regard to the Tea Party. The first days of the movement were certainly grass roots, powered by people who felt frustrated by the economy and were driven into a froth by the 'bailouts' and the coming health care legislation. (Whether they were right to be angry about either, is a different matter).

    However, Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, both well-known think-tanks funded by people like the Koch brothers, invested millions of dollars to organize, train, and fund various tea party groups throughout the country.

    Obviously, not all tea parties received money from these two groups, but many did.

    Moreover, the Tea Party's shift from a grass roots movement to an apparatus of the GOP was complete by the 2010 election, when parties in each state supported Republican candidates who espoused tea party values, rather than independent or even moderate Democratic candidates.

    The heavy involvement of both the Republican party and groups like FreedomWorks makes the Tea Party less organic than its original creation would suggest.

    Now, obviously, the Occupy movement has involvement from various groups, including SEIU, but there isn't the same structure, so the Occupy movement remains for now, an organic grass roots movement.
    Of course, the DNC would love to absorb the Occupy movement in the same way the GOP soaked up the Tea Party's fury, but I'm not sure Occupy will follow that same path.
     
  18. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    Put up with what exactly because its never been clear. That you can't raise a support a family on minimum wage? That there are rich people and big corporations? That you've got $50k in student loans and no job? Its all share the wealth but not the debt.

    If those are some of the grievances, OWS is occupying the wrong road in the wrong town.
     
  19. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    That's an interesting question. For the Tea Party, it took nearly a year for the party to move from an angry protest to a political movement with the Republican party. At this point, the tea party was people running around with "Porkulus" signs and protesting on tax day, but the real campaigns of the movement were still months away.

    The Occupy movement started on September 17, so I think it's a little early to demand that the movement 'accomplish' something similar. Second, the reports of human waste are problematic (and disgusting), but a reality of camping in the center of a city, where you cannot dig latrines.

    I think the movement made a mistake in not working out the logistics of having so many people in an urban space for days on end, but that also tells us how organic* the movement is: nobody is really in charge to make these kinds of choices.
     
  20. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    I think you're right. And for the record, people assembling and speaking up for what they believe in is always a good thing. At the same time for a movement that started on or around Sept 17 that has yet to accomplish anything to get special mention as "the protester" as the person of the year in the same sentence as the egyptians and libyans is a little insulting to them in regards to the scores of people who died to free themselves from dictators.
     
  21. ucfgrad93 thread starter macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    Of course not. The protesters of the Arab spring were speaking out against dictatorships and actually managed to topple the Egyptian and Libyan governments. I don't think that the OWS crowd should be included because they haven't done anything of worth so far.
     
  22. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    First off, I certainly agree with Time's choice -- in fact, I voted for it. This is the year in which people suffering under injustices of varying kinds took their fates into their hands and said, "Enough!"

    Second, with regards to what the tea party or OWS have accomplished:

    The tea party was largely off-point to begin with, ignoring the problem of wealth inequality and concentrating mostly on the deficit; and even there, they proposed bizarre, contradictory solutions, such as cutting taxes and lowering the deficit. In the end, as others have pointed out, they mutated into a modern-day John Birch Society whose sole real accomplishment to date has been to bring the functioning of government to an ass-grinding halt. It is the living embodiment of the old adage that Republicans say government doesn't work and then go out and prove it.

    OWS is still near-nascent and, while it certainly has the same potential to flame out as the tea party, it's still to early to tell. At the very least, however, it has figured out the real problems better than the tea party has, and it has aroused both youth and older citizens who a few months ago were sitting around separately grumbling but not doing anything.
     
  23. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    I'm not sure if the Egyptians or Libyans would, as a group, see it that way. Egyptian protestors have displayed pro-OWS signs several times, and I'm not sure that the Libyans or Tunisians would disagree.

    Obviously, the risks for Occupy are much lower than the guy who carried a kalashnikov into Benghazi or those who fought hand-to-hand with thugs in Tahir square.

    The larger question is how can the Occupy movement shift from its initial protests to action and that's uncertain.
     
  24. Gelfin macrumors 68020

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    The Tunisian protesters were protesting the same things as their Egyptian and Libyan counterparts, and continue to do so. They have not succeeded in toppling their oppressors. Is their cause less worthy for that reason?

    As for the Americans, what would you like to see them accomplish?
     
  25. ucfgrad93 thread starter macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #25
    As others have said, OWS began in September and other than camp out in parks waving signs, they haven't brought about any change what so ever. They might, in time, but it is way too early to be including them with the protesters in Egypt and Libya which brought about huge change. It reminds me of Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize just because he won an election.:rolleyes:
     

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