Time to let athletes dope?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by niuniu, Jun 15, 2012.

?

Doping, ok?

  1. Yes, it doesn't bother me if they dope

    6 vote(s)
    12.0%
  2. Yes, but only because it's futile to try and stop it, but I don't like it

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  3. No, continue to test them, cheating is a moral wrong

    40 vote(s)
    80.0%
  4. Undecided | Keeping an open mind | Will post something interesting

    3 vote(s)
    6.0%
  1. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #1
    They're 'all' doin it. Anyone that's went heavy into workin out will know what goes on on the changing rooms. Even teens now start out on kiddie-roids (prohormones) that you can buy OTC, aren't really expensive, and really do work.

    Top athletes get the good stuff, the good docs and it's not so much about being clean, but appearing clean. Cat n mouse. So why bother?

    Beeb mag havin a shot at a debate on the back of the Armstrong thing..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18451131
     
  2. malman89 macrumors 68000

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    #2
    Cycling has always been a sport plagued by doping. It's hardly par for the course, though there have been a lot of problems in almost every major sport, really excluding hockey (NHL).

    Though hockey has its own demons it's struggling with (enforcers, pain killer abuse), so it's not perfect.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    It's absolutely not OK. Athletes can do serious damage to themselves. The best thing is to stay clean and pay fair. They'll be winners in the long run.
     
  4. leftywamumonkey macrumors 6502a

    leftywamumonkey

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    #4
    I'd say, why not. Since your body is practically your career and sports careers don't last long anyways, with 35 being considered old in most sports, why not have a short advantage. We're paying for them to perform well, right? It's their body anyways. I actually feel bad for the athletes who have to compete against the ones who "dope" I guess.
     
  5. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #5
    Whatever sport league should have control on whether it is accepted or not. As far as legality, if it harms only themselves and not others, I cannot tell someone else how to live. However, that doesn't mean I am saying that those drugs should be sold over the counter, as then we are just a bunch of 'enablers'. I personally think it's a stupid idea to risk your life for 'love of the game'. The dangers of common performance enhancing drugs are well known, and so the ignorance argument doesn't work. And I see it as unlikely that many sports leagues would tolerate its usage with its current level of public criticism.
     
  6. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #6
    Nah bro, not messing up your body's natural hormone levels at all. :rolleyes:
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Look, I'm a 45 year old hockey player. I have done everything the right way my whole life, no chemicals or any such thing. Eat right and do the correct conditioning workouts and you'll be fine in the long run. Do this drug crap and you'll be done very early. Just playing like I do has given me a mild concussion, broken foot and more bruises and cuts than I can count.

    The question is, do you love the sport you play and want to do it as long as possible, or do you want to be "successful", do drugs and make a ton of cash in the short term, which could also leave you crippled or worse?

    I plan to play as long as a lot of guys I know. Believe it or not, a person can play hockey into their 60's (not professionally of course) if they take care of themselves. I still play with guys in the juniors and minors from time to time and train with NHL coaches. If I had done "performance enhancing" drugs in my past, I have no doubt I would not be able to do what I do now. Doping is BS.
     
  8. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #8
    It's not how long you play the game, it's how you entertain the masses. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #9
    The real question is whether we want sport to be off-the-chart unreachable to anyone who refuses to use?
     
  10. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #10
    Mate, you don't need to tell me.
     
  11. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #11
    Athletes are going to take them anyway.

    Athletes are straight up dying for sport and entertainment.

    Forcing someone willing to give up their life for sport and entertainment to further risk their life by taking unregulated drugs in secret for some concept of morality and a "level playing field" is asinine.

    NFL players lifepsan is roughly 15 years shorter than the American average. The American dream of sports as some kind of grand meritocracy is going to keep it that way. Give athletes access to legal, regulated substances and let's see if we can't change that statistic a little bit. Keeping steroids poorly understood and a black market good isn't going to help anybody.
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    That doesn't make it right. Allowing it only means that every competitor will have to take them, and in larger and larger doses, simply in order to be competitive. Surely that is not the Olympian Spirit?
     
  13. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #13
    What makes it wrong?
     
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #14
    Wearing clothing isn't either, but what is one to do? :D
     
  15. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #15
    It's a no win situation, IMO. You endorse juicing and you are liable for all the negative side effects that can come with. Even if they are unintended. I mean, the first time some 'roided-up freak show kills someone in a boxing match, or whatever, then there will be lawsuits up the wazoo about who let this happen. Not to mention that its has to be an all or nothing approach. If you say drugs X Y and Z are legal but drugs A B and C aren't then we haven't changed anything because people will still take the illegal drugs and we'll still have to test for them.

    I disagree w/some aspects of the article in the OP such as equating eating healthy and training at altitude to steroid use. Steroids enable your body to do things it wouldn't otherwise be able to do. Eating healthy and proper training can improve or maximize what your body is capable of but everyone has their own natural 'ceiling' of strength, fitness and body type. People take steroids so they can go beyond that ceiling.

    The cat and mouse game is the lesser of two evils, IMO.

    Who's forcing anyone to take unregulated drugs?

    First off, what happens when athletes decide to take the unregulated stuff because they hear it's better? Aren't we back in the same situation we're in now? Second, the last thing the NFL needs is steroids making guys bigger, stronger and faster. The force college and NFL players hit with is unprecedented in the sport and plays a big factor in the brain injuries that are turning out to be unfortunately common. If anything there needs to be weight caps by position to try and force players to downsize (this would also probably have a side effect of making steroids less appealing since players could no long grow to 'unlimited' sizes). Also, how is letting guys beef up way beyond what their body is meant for going to improve their overall health (especially later in life)? If anything it means more stress, and likelihood of damage, to joints, ligaments and tendons. Using steroids can add muscle mass but it does nothing to shore up the skeletal structure and connective tissue that is tasked with supporting the increased mass and forces associated with it.


    Lethal
     
  16. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #16
    Performance enhancing drugs have been a big part of the Olympic spirit for over 40 years (and in other places like the NFL for almost 50). Virtually every competitor already has to take them. Prevalence numbers are hard to get, but estimates for the NFL from the players themselves have come in as high as 90%, and there are olympic surveys pushing 70%.
    Sorry I wasn't clear, forcing was meant to be applied to "in secret".
    I'm sure even with legal doping, there would always be illegal doping. But at least with a number of regulated, safely administered options available, we can mitigate some of the illegal doping, and be better prepared to support those hurt by illegal doping. The ability to disclose steroid use without fear of a career ending scandal would make it significantly easier to get proper medical care and supervision. Anabolic steroids are not taken in a vacuum, and in order to combat side effects many users juggle hormones, anti-depressants, insulin, HGH, etc.
    I expressed in an earlier thread that I supported weight caps and a couple other solutions to help with the massive brain damage problem in athletes post-NFL. I agree, I don't think you could change the NFL policy on steroids without instituting a weight cap.
     
  17. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #17
    The unobvious solution to this problem would be to eliminate helmets and pads and enforce personal foul rules with penalty time, like in hockey, or ejection. Then the game would evolve into pure skill and art.
     
  18. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #18
    I wonder what would happen if there were two parallel tracks, one for steroids and one without? Which track would get the larger audience?
     
  19. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #19
    They already have that in bodybuilding. Natural competition is by far the smaller entity in all regards, financial, audience turnout, fan interest etc

    People will flock to whatever sport has the bigger hitters, the fastest athletes or whatever stat is relevant.
     
  20. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #20
    The other issue would be how would you determine what constitutes 'legal' versus 'illegal' usage, and what constitues 'performance enhancing'? Many drugs used as 'performance enhancing drugs' are also critical therapeutic agents and some are even on the WHO's list of critical medications. Some can greatly reduce the pain and length of injury recovery or post-op therapy, and allow a safer/healthier recovery from an injury... (anyone ever have a hydrocortisone (cortisol) shot for pain?)
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    ...or can encourage someone to do themselves some really serious damage because they aren't responding to their body's signals any more.

    ----------

    That is exactly my point: is it really that absorbing to watch a competition between pharmacists?
     
  22. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #22
    It's never that, the best athletes are genetically blessed, talented and living a restrictive lifestyle to support their training. Doping breaks plateaus and gives them an edge. It doesn't turn a regular guy into a sports star.
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    They should bring their own edge.
     
  24. niuniu thread starter macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #24
    Come on, that's just rhetoric. You know these guys have an edge already, that's why they're selected :)

    Besides, you enjoy watching sports. You have done all your life, you don't think about the drugs they've been taking.
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    In that case, why do they need chemical enhancement?

    I don't, I haven't and I do.
     

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