Time to let them fail

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 10, 2013
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Criminal Mexi Midget

Populism

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2014
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I could not agree more. When things faill, let them fail. I don't care if it's Wall Street, Fannie Mae, or your kid in eighth grade. Unfortunately, we are in the new dawn of everybody winning, and everybody deserving everything they asked for. Even banks.

Because maybe, just maybe, people, or businesses, or institutions fail, they get back up and do it right the next time.
 
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darksithpro

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2016
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So a lot of these automakers are selling as much as 15-20% of their vehicles to bulk fleet sales at discount. The fleets keep them for about 22 months, then they dump the cars to auction, the used cars flood the used car market and drive down used cars sales and their value. Considering Enterprise has over a million cars and the others over half a million, that's a lot of cars. Also including private and government fleet vehicles. Am I getting this correct?
 

blackfox

macrumors 65816
Feb 18, 2003
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However, the report highlights that autos are a relatively small share of the overall U.S. economy; car production typically adds 0.1 percent to gross domestic product growth, and autos comprise less than 1 percent of total consumer spending.
so why should I care again?
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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May 13, 2016
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Uh oh. Somebody better tell Tesla with their briefly passing the value of the big 3 off a car that most people can't afford and don't own. We constantly berate politicians for their unrealistic promises but Wall St. gets a pass on cyclically bankrupting millions of people with their speculative BS. "But I own stock so I have to believe." Shut up.
 

satcomer

macrumors 603
Feb 19, 2008
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Maybe people are waking up because modern cars are slow pieces of junk! ;)



Plus over my life time I'v seen new cars have lower and lower horsepower and torque overal! In the past I could easily change my oil, spark plus and many things in my driveway, not today though!
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
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UK
Maybe people are waking up because modern cars are slow pieces of junk! ;)



Plus over my life time I'v seen new cars have lower and lower horsepower and torque overal! In the past I could easily change my oil, spark plus and many things in my driveway, not today though!
I think the issue is more that modern cars don't really offer much over say a 10-15 year old one.

Only cool feature really is autonomous emergency braking.
 
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Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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If major car rental companies decide to keep their cars longer, instead of always buying new cars, their costs might drop in a a certain time frame.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
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so why should I care again?
Because banks are doing the exact same "investment vehicle" processes they were doing on mortgages that precipitated the great recession, but this time on (sub prime) car loans. Different target, same financial shenanigans that will result in the same "who's holding the bag" ********* we're still recovering from.
 

oneMadRssn

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Sep 8, 2011
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Nobody seems to have mentioned that cash for clunkers significantly raised the average cost of a used car. To me, it seems those effects are finally wearing off and we are returning to normal.
 
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vrDrew

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Jan 31, 2010
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Plus over my life time I'v seen new cars have lower and lower horsepower and torque overal! !
I think you may be remembering things a little differently than I do.

Remember the IROC-Z Camaro? Like this spiffy 1982 model. The one with a 5 liter V-8. Sure must have been a fast, powerful piece of fine American engineering?



Not so fast. (Literally.) That hulking V8 put out an anemic 145 hp, with a slightly better 240 lb/ft of torque. It waddled to 60 mph in a leisurely nine seconds. (In case you are wondering, Burt Reynolds "Smokey & The Bandit" 1977 Trans Am wasn't much better.)

Compare that with a 2017 Ford Focus RS: Which puts out 350 hp and 350 lb/ft of torque. From an engine that is half the size, and less than half the weight of the Camaro's. And gets better gas mileage and a tiny fraction of the emissions.

Oh, and the Focus gets to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds. And it has a back seat you can actually use.
 

samcraig

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Jun 22, 2009
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I could not agree more. When things faill, let them fail. I don't care if it's Wall Street, Fannie Mae, or your kid in eighth grade. Unfortunately, we are in the new dawn of everybody winning, and everybody deserving everything they asked for. Even banks.

Because maybe, just maybe, people, or businesses, or institutions fail, they get back up and do it right the next time.
Genuinely curious if that translates to coal miners too and learning a new profession vs expecting the Government to solve their employment problems.
 

Populism

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2014
185
2,970
Genuinely curious if that translates to coal miners too and learning a new profession vs expecting the Government to solve their employment problems.
Absolutely. When someone falls, they can either get back up and stand differently, or they can ask the government to get rid of that pesky gravity. I guess that makes me cold and heartless, but gravity always wins. No matter how far off the government attempts to push it into the future.

Just wait until the attempted gravity-reversing effects of quantitative easing are fully realized one day.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,610
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USA
Absolutely. When someone falls, they can either get back up and stand differently, or they can ask the government to get rid of that pesky gravity. I guess that makes me cold and heartless, but gravity always wins. No matter how far off the government attempts to push it into the future.

Just wait until the attempted gravity-reversing effects of quantitative easing are fully realized one day.
I don't disagree (to a point). I just find it amusing(?) that some on the right and those that voted for Trump because they are coal miners believe it's the governments job to help them but when it comes to helping others, the government should stay out. And no - I don't have a specific source or fact to back that up other than general opinion based on various tweets, chants, news stories during and after the election.
 

rjohnstone

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2007
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I think you may be remembering things a little differently than I do.

Remember the IROC-Z Camaro? Like this spiffy 1982 model. The one with a 5 liter V-8. Sure must have been a fast, powerful piece of fine American engineering?



Not so fast. (Literally.) That hulking V8 put out an anemic 145 hp, with a slightly better 240 lb/ft of torque. It waddled to 60 mph in a leisurely nine seconds. (In case you are wondering, Burt Reynolds "Smokey & The Bandit" 1977 Trans Am wasn't much better.)

Compare that with a 2017 Ford Focus RS: Which puts out 350 hp and 350 lb/ft of torque. From an engine that is half the size, and less than half the weight of the Camaro's. And gets better gas mileage and a tiny fraction of the emissions.

Oh, and the Focus gets to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds. And it has a back seat you can actually use.
The IROC-Z came out in 1985. ;)
It came with a 215 hp engine... still a joke.
The bigger joke is in 1987 the IROC got a 350 (5.7L) which gave a whopping 10 extra hp. Ridiculous.
My wife's minivan has more horsepower (248hp) and torque, and a faster 0-60 time.
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
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The IROC-Z came out in 1985. ;)
Good catch on that..:cool:

I guess my point is that things weren't as great in the good old days as people seem to think they were. And when it comes to cars, the 1980s were dark, dark days indeed for US car makers. Ronald Reagan might have been in the White House, but GM et al were making real dogs of cars.

In fairness, part of the problem was they hadn't learned yet how to make decent power from an engine with emissions controls and unleaded gas. There had been plenty of muscle cars in the 1960s that put out over 300 hp. But they were also uncomfortable death-traps with brakes prone to fading and bodies that rusted at the hint of rain. And I always view 1960s horsepower figures a little skeptically - they were usually measured at the crank, rather than at the rear wheel as we do now.

In some respects the 1980s were the years when the US automakers set the stage for their ultimate collapse, which came twenty years later: That's when they goosed sales with zero-interest car loans. It's when they failed to push the Government to do proper healthcare reform. And GM was run by accountants who squeezed pennies out the BOM - meaning cars were leaky and unreliable.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,254
Scotland
Let them fail. Self-driving cars are on the way so ownership of a car, or rental of a car won't make sense in the long run.

EDIT: Sorry I was a bit punchy for the first version of this post - it's been a long week.