To All The Ladies Out There....

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Shacklebolt, Dec 6, 2007.

?

Women: by your own definition, do you consider yourself a "feminist?"

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
  2. No

    12 vote(s)
    63.2%
  1. Shacklebolt macrumors 6502a

    Shacklebolt

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    #1
    A quick question. Not a social issue - just an honest yes/no thing.

    Do you, women specifically, consider yourself a feminist?
     
  2. SkyBell macrumors 604

    SkyBell

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Location:
    Texas, unfortunately.
    #2
    Not really, I'm not one of those women who think housework is degrading, or anything.
     
  3. abijnk macrumors 68040

    abijnk

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #3
    But who doesn't appreciate a man who can do laundry and cook??? :D
     
  4. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #5
    Every other man in existence.:p
     
  5. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    #6
    I voted no because I think men and women are fundamentally different and it would be unnatural to try to make them the same. However, I do believe in shared responsibility at home. There is no way I'll be coming back from a full time job and expected to do ALL the house work. I also believe that at work men and women having the same responsibility should be treated the same way.
     
  6. abijnk macrumors 68040

    abijnk

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    #7
    Very nicely put. I agree :)
     
  7. Shacklebolt thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Shacklebolt

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    Sep 2, 2004
  8. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #9
    It makes me a little sad that feminism and feminist are taken by people to be defined by things like opining that housework is degrading or that men are evil (the extremes of second-wave feminism). Feminist thought is a lot broader than that, for one, and is fundamentally concerned about things that I think we all should agree with: equality of rights, that women deserve respect, and that discrimination based on sex is unacceptable.

    Cassie, don't be afraid to be a feminist. And don't let people make it into a bad word.
     
  9. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #10
    I've been able to do both far better than many of my exes. I expect equality, but if I'm a better cook and she's better at cleaning, I don't see what's wrong with that. I'm not saying I should never clean and they could never cook, but I hate cleaning and most of their meals tasted awful. I guess the only problem would be if they didn't want to clean either, and we were both breadwinners, but then I guess we could just hire a maid. :p I'd still cook, because I like cooking.

    Learn to cook. Trust me. Even if you just offer, still goes a long way. ;)
     
  10. pooky macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    #11
    Wow, I'm a little frightened by the characterizations of feminism thus far.

    Ok, I'm out of the closet. I'm a feminist. I'm also male, so I didn't vote in the poll.

    Feminism has nothing to do with housework. It has nothing to do with making women and men the same. It has nothing to do with making men inferior.

    To quote a bumper sticker, feminism is the belief in the radical notion that women are people.

    In other words, women deserve equal societal opportunity, social mobility, and equal treatment under the law. You can do this and still do housework. You can do this and still accept (and embrace) the differences between the sexes. All you have to do is let yourself go and stop treating women like women, and start treating them like people.

    I'm guessing many people are feminists and don't even realize.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #12
    That's not true. You're forgetting us lazy homos. :)
     
  12. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Location:
    Madison, Alabama
    #13
    Don't you worry your pretty little head about it, missy. :D

    I do hope the OP will let us in on why he (she?) asked the question. Are you trying to get a sense of what people think feminism means? I think that (as miloblithe suggested) feminism has gotten a bad reputation, mostly due to the positions taken by some of the more extreme organizations (e.g. NOW).
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #14
    Well said.

    Of course, the Feminist Movement has produced it's share of radicals with some pretty angry agendas. And of course, those are the people with whom those who disagree with equality for women will point to as they proceed to paint the entire movement with their broad brush. But that is no more fair to feminism than it is to claim that Eric Rudolph is representative of all of Christianity.
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #15
    Also due to extremists like Rush Limbaugh, who coined the term Feminazi.

    Thereby proving that it's ok to compare feminists to Nazis, but not Republicans. Go figure.
     
  15. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    Jun 11, 2003
    Location:
    Madison, Alabama
    #16
    Why do you think that term "stuck", though? I mean, did most of America have a positive association with radical feminists before Rush came up with that name?
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #17
    If you read my post, you'll see that I have acknowleged the radical offshoots of the feminist movement. And there is always a kernel of truth at the core of a stereotype. But I'll repeat: To claim the feminist movement is represented by those radicals is as unfair as claiming the Christians are represented by Eric Rudolph.

    Are you denying that there has been a concerted effort by conservatives to demonize, among other, feminists?
     
  17. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    #18
    I think the crux of the OP's question was the term consider. In order to consider oneself a feminist, one must have a clear definition of the term in their own mind. I consider myself a feminist in that I believe in equal opportunities and equal rights for women, but when I hear a woman proclaim that she is a feminist, my internal definition changes. The word has so many connotations that it is often hard to determine what someone might actually mean by that statement.

    It is very similar to the term evangelical or even born-again. They, along with feminism, have been twisted to the point where they are often used to describe people in an unfavorable manner.
     
  18. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #19
    To be fair, I've not heard any called an "evanglinazi" yet...

    But your point is valid.
     
  19. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #20
    When I think of a feminist it seems like all they say is men are evil.
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #21
    Those are the radicals. And yes, I've gotten into arguments with them about their twisted view of feminism.

    And, as in most groups, the radicals are the loudest, and the most visible.
     
  21. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    #22
    Not yet. Though comparisons are often made.

    I can agree completely with this statement. Radicals in any group seldom have anything but their own personal interests in mind. That interest is normally to be heard and reacted to.
     
  22. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #23
    I have to agree with Lyle - the word, along with just about every other -ism has been corrupted by extreme elements. The trouble is two-fold.

    First you have organizations that campaign for equality, but make demands for things that people never viewed as unequal. I wonder how many people would find it degrading to call a woman a "chairman." ALERT! BORING ANECDOTE IN WHITE: I remember when I was in 5th grade, we did a class play and we sang some song that was famous in the 80s or something (maybe the 60s or 70s - I don't know). Anyway, I didn't know at the time, but our teachers changed the line "the voice of every man" to "the voice of everyone". A couple years later I heard the real song and was perturbed that someone felt the need to edit a song because they thought it offensive (why else would it change?)It's little things like that. Add in their portrayal the women's rights movement as a zero-sum game and what appears to be demands of social androgyny (but only when convenient) and it's no wonder that people have a negative perception.

    Second, I think the name, in and of itself is a problem. The term feminism indicates a focus on the feminine. I suppose if female became a generic term for all people this would be less of an issue. But, in the meantime, "equality of rights, that women deserve respect, and that discrimination based on sex is unacceptable" comes off as "we want all that, plus men owe us for what happened in the past". And that is a sticking point. If the term, itself, better indicated "we just want to be treated the way you would like to be treated", I think more people would identify themselves as espousing the values.
     
  23. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #24

    It's not about being offensive; it's about recognising the inherent and unspoken power dynamics implied within language and certain words. And since thought and belief is so intrinsically linked to language, the use of gender-free terms is of advantage to all those striving for a society that offers equal opportunities for all.

    I still reserve the right to be a demi-goddess, though. Because that's a pretty cool title. ;)
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #25
    Not so much degrading as presumptuous and arrogant, although I do find the common alternative of referring to both men and women as "chairs" to be rather bizarre.
    I would say men owe for what is happening at present, too.
     

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