To Impeach or Not to Impeach

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ericgtr12, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #1
    With what appears likely to be very bad news for Trump in the upcoming Mueller report and the unlikely fact that a conviction will happen, will the Democrats look toward impeachment?

    There are a few things we learned from Clinton:

    1) He was impeached
    2) He was not removed from office
    3) Millions of dollars and countless man hours were spent just to reach the above two outcomes

    IMO, knowing what we know now, Dems should leave things be and focus on the work of the people we elected the new House for. If something really overwhelming breaks then we can talk about it but in the end pushing for impeachment will likely get us nowhere.

    If we want Trump out of office we motivate the base and vote him out instead of fruitlessly trying to overturn the will of the people.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #2
    it has to be really bad but since 2020 is just around the corner dems might go for it anyways, it is not their money that is being spent it's our tax dollars so dems lose nothing in that regard.
     
  3. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #3
    Impeach if, and only if, there is a case to be answered. If not, get out the vote in 2020. Simples.
     
  4. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    If a felony indictment is handed down, they will have to impeach.

    Can we afford two more years of his tweeting his innocence, while he continues to undermine Democracy?
     
  5. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #5
    Unless Congressional investigations turn up a real smoking gun, I think they should wait for Mueller to finish, but, based on what we now know, I think it would be a dereliction of their Constitutional responsibilities to not at least initiate impeachment proceedings. They should not allow political considerations to unreasonably influence their decisions. At this point, I don't care if it ends up hurting the Democrat's election chances in 2020. The president is an amoral corrupt conman (who has already been implicated in multiple felonies) and if they do nothing, they are condoning his actions.
     
  6. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #6
    I don't disagree, the only problem with that is getting it through the GOP held Senate and that seems unlikely, they've all got his back, even if he's a convicted felon.
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #7
    not sure there, really depends on what is presented.
     
  8. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    Which is crazy.
     
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    no different from the democrats who let Clinton off the hook..........
     
  10. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #10
    True, but judging from the pulse of the party on the weekend political shows a felony conviction of campaign finance fraud will not be enough to convince them and that carries heavier weight than collusion. So unless there's something we're unaware of, Republicans got his back.
     
  11. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #11
    But he was impeached. And Donnie has now done the same thing for which Bill was impeached. The issue is not the outcome, the issue is the process.
     
  12. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #12
    Hardly let off the hook. Unless you are saying that because he wasn't removed from office. Also - should the country not learn from its mistakes? Further, while I don't condone Clinton's lying under oath - you can't compare Clinton and Trump in this scenario.

    That being said - Clinton was impeached in his second term and after the election. Something Trump may not have the luxury of. Meaning - he may not make it to the 2nd election as the nominated candidate.
     
  13. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #13
    I was going to post this exact same thing. Lest we Dems think we were better than Republicans here, it's almost exactly the same thing and not pointing that out is hypocrisy at its finest.

    Right, and in the end what happened? We spent all that time and money with zero change in the outcome. He was impeached and not forced from office because his party had control, in the end it was just a slap on the wrist and some public shaming. Talk about a waste of time and resources.
     
  14. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #14
    so if the house impeaches the mango messiah and the senate lets him stay in office it's all good right?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 10, 2018 ---
    I have to say the democrats have as much right to waste time and resources as the republicans did. it is a shame how deeply divided we are.
     
  15. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #15
    I want to see the hearings. If he's not removed from office, it will be a shame, but at least procedure will have been followed.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #16
    completely agree there.
     
  17. ericgtr12 thread starter macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #17
    It sounds like no matter what the outcome, he will be dogged by House hearings for at least the remaining two years of his term. Frankly, I don't know how he can even take it as it is. One can see why Nixon walked in hind site.
     
  18. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #18
    The weight of guilt is heavy. That's why Nixon walked. I don't believe Trump bears that weight because he feels no guilt about anything he does.
     
  19. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #19
    Nixon was from a different Era, those "men" who would at least take responsibility for doing the wrong thing after getting caught are long gone.
    neither did Clinton. but as said different era.
     
  20. samcraig macrumors P6

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    Clinton's scenario was different altogether because at the core - he lied to congress about an affair. That's what he was impeached for. Trump could be impeached for lying about an affair - but it would be campaign finance laws or other matters.

    Also - I think Nixon didn't think he did anything wrong. In fact, he said that when the President does it - it's not illegal. He just didn't love the spotlight/wasn't as big of a narcissist as Trump. Nixon was paranoid. Because he WAS, in fact, guilty and knew it. Trump doesn't care about innocent or guilt. I mean that literally.
     
  21. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    NPR was just talking about that this morning. If they decided to impeach, it depends on what they need to impeach him for. Right now, there isn't something "big" (my word, not theirs) to warrant an impeachment that will stick, and even with that, they still would have to convince 34 Reds in the Senate to remove him from office...

    .. Not going to happen with elections around the corner, plus with those Reds' political careers on the line.

    Now, what do I mean by "big"? Well, if Mueller finds obstruction of justice, then impeachment will definitely be on the table and may be a hard pill for the Reds to swallow, as it will come up.

    But right now, Trump is doing nothing but tweetstorming about "no collusion! no collusion!!", and hoping that his base eats that up and concentrates on political implications (and so far, they have); yet so far, he has forgotten about any LEGAL implications from this. Right now, with Mueller's probe, there is already enough to get Trump on campaign finance violations, in which he isn't thinking about whatsoever. Even Fox News is talking that up:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...hy-trump-indicted_us_5c0d5cafe4b0ab8cf6946c32

    And with the Blues coming in, that will be more than enough to warrant an investigation at the very least into possible impeachment proceedings. But then again, some people don't seem to believe that certain members of the incoming Blues don't have subpoena power over them.. ;)

    BL.
     
  22. kobalap macrumors 6502

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    #22
    If I were a liberal, I would prefer that my candidate be running against Trump (who at this point, has a practical endless list of lies, broken promises under his belt, not to mention felony indictments waiting after he leaves office) than to face sitting President Pence who can show that after 1-2 years on the job that he is every bit the president that Trump was not.
     
  23. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #23
    If I were a conservative, let alone if I were Trump, I would always keep that ace up my sleeve.

    In this case, if I (Trump) were to survive to the election and lose, I would wait until the last day I had in office, then even as a lame duck, resign, let Pence take the oath of office, then pardon me, thus getting around Article 2 of the Constitution, so I wouldn't have to face any trial for anything at the federal level.

    Diabolical, and runs roughshod through any fundamental principles we have as a nation, but would be legal (and subsequently end Pence's political career), so there you have it.

    The only way to be above the law in this country is to legally use and abuse the law to your advantage.

    Again, not saying I would do this, (because I wouldn't; we all hold ourselves to much higher moral and ethical values than Trump), but there it is.

    Hell, a conservative columnist even went as far as going to the last 10 minutes:

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/je...utes-next-inauguration-mike-pence-can-pardon/

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...on-jennifer-rubin_us_5c0dd8d8e4b035a7bf5c83d2

    BL.
     
  24. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #24
    Somehow I imagine even Pence would struggle to pardon him, but we're getting ahead of ourselves. Wait for Mueller (and the NY cases).
     
  25. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #25
    Oh, I totally agree. Trump will have a hard time swallowing what Mueller brings. However, legally, and at the cost of a hell of a lot of political capital, they have an out.

    BL.
     

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137 December 10, 2018