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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zin, Apr 2, 2017.
No **** Sherlock.
No **** Sherlock.
Where's the false equivalency?
That you keep separating CA from the rest of the union. That's not how it works.
Quote that. Quote where I "separated" Calfornia from the rest of the union.
That summing state totals means something. There is no popular vote and if there was not only candidates would approach the campaign differently, so would voters.
I speak for myself, NOT for Virginia. I'm sick and tired of hearing that my place of residency should trump my individuality.
You aren't reading my posts correctly. Look at what I just wrote. I said the state's popular vote determines how electorates are chosen.
The state. Not the nation. The state. Not the nation. The state. Not the nation.
Welcome to how society works since the dawn of society.
--- Post Merged, Apr 2, 2017 ---
"So when you say California doesn't matter more than any other state, it seems to me as if math isn't one's strong suit."
--- Post Merged, Apr 2, 2017 ---
Is the presidential election based on popular vote? No.
Was there a popular vote to elect a president? No
Summing state results and claiming someone won a popular vote is ridiculous because that wasn't the contest. If it had been the candidate's strategies would have been different changing the result. You can say Hillary would have won all you want, but it's conjecture because that election didn't happen.
I honestly expect more from you. Are you seriously incapable of seeing relative strength based on the number of electorates in any given state?
And I expect more from you too.
The presidential election is based on the popular vote of any given state. That determines how the state chooses it's electors. It isn't based on a sum of the states ... that's just one way it's been quantified to give people an understanding of overall popularity. It's one way to measure how the election went.
Edit: an example of this is the 1960 Kennedy/Nixon election. All my life I've heard about how close this election was ... how Kennedy beat Nixon by a mere 100 thousand votes.
Yet the electoral college was quite similar to trump's victory margin: Kennedy (303) to Nixon (219). Popular vote has always been an important measuring stick ... until now apparently.
The people who keep repeating "nobody cares" or "it doesn't matter" are fooling themselves. Of course it matters. In the eyes of many people Trump will always lack legitimacy, just like a boxer who gets knocked out but wins by points would not be seen as a legitimate champion. The same happened with W (even though the margin of his popular loss was much smaller), and it didn't really stop until he won his second term fair and square. And the degree of legitimacy (or the "mandate") of a presidency has has a very real impact on how much support or resistance the president will encounter trying to push through his agenda.
And we saw this with the Women's March and the number of people turning out in town halls telling their representatives that they better not replace Obamacare with the monstrosity congress came up with. The will of the people is being expressed in ways the electoral outcome didn't reflect.
But I do want to say that despite the popular vote, or Russian collusion, trump did win and is a legitimate president in my eyes. He's a terrible president. He's making all kinds of horrible decisions, alienating allies and making a mockery of the office. But he won that opportunity.
And I don't reflexively believe we should obstruct everything he's doing (or that congress wants to do) despite him being such a horrible president. Despite the mess in Washington, the business of the nation still needs to be conducted in some reasonable manner. That doesn't mean we roll over and let them do whatever they want. But I don't want to repeat the obstructionism we saw during the Obama Administration, where Republicans were willing to bring down the government in order to further their agenda.
Actually you should expect more from youself my friend.
Is the president elected by a national popular vote?
We both know the answer, no.
Summing the state results and calling it a national popular vote is flawed. I understand you and others want to attach that significance but it just doesn't follow. We're going in circles. I understand your point and you definitely understand mine. And we both know if the election was a national popular vote the candidates and voters would behave differently.
Someone give Tom Perez and puppy to play with. I think he needs it.
I thought he was trying to channel Howard Dean and expected him to scream during his rant .
That in fact was Trump's strategy. He knew (as did everyone else including Hillary) that you get to be president by accumulating 270 electoral votes. He knew he couldn't win California or New York or Illinois, so wrote off those states and put his efforts into states he COULD win like Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc., and in fact did win. Ergo, Trump is president.
Simple fact: Trump won more electoral votes than Clinton, 306 vs. 232. Yes, Hillary won the popular vote, but that's not how we tally elections as you know. That kind of sentiment is a mental "safe space" for those unhinged, fringe individuals who still cannot accept the reality that Trump won the presidency according to the accepted rules.
In the most recent Super Bowl, the Atlanta Falcons made more yards per play (7.5 vs. 5.9) in both passing (8.6 vs. 6.5) and rushing (5.8 vs. 4.2) than the New England Patriots, yet they lost the game to the Pats 34 to 28. Do those statistics delegitimize the Patriots' win? Do we see mobs of angry Falcons fan screaming "They stole the Super Bowl!"? Do we see Dan Quinn saying "Bill Belichick, you didn't win the game!" No, because everybody know that it's points on the board from touchdowns, field goals, etc. that matter, and other results or statistics do not come into play. Same with the election. Hillary supporters are just sore losers. You can keep saying Hillary won the popular vote all you want if it makes you feel better, but according to the rules of the game, she lost and Trump won fair and square.
We don't care that you and your friends don't see Donnie as legitimate. Nothing changes the fact that he is the president.
Cry your heart out all day, everyday for the next 4 or possibly 8 years. It still won't change the fact.
You are absolutely right about the results and how we tally elections. But the popular vote has always been fodder for discussion and has in the past been the preferred measure for describing a margin of victory (see Kennedy v. Nixon). If you want to talk about those running for their mental "safe space," I would include those who want to pretend that the popular vote doesn't matter when its always mattered ... until now, apparently.
But just as I accept that HRC beat Bernie Sanders according to the accepted rules, Clinton likewise lost to trump according to the accepted rules. Trump is absolutely a legitimate president ... albeit a horrible example of one.
you spelled "cheated" wrong.
Yes, it did. But the results did NOT please some people so they are now angry. Sorry.
let them stay angry. maybe next time they will raise their voice instead of just sitting there letting the DNC cheat to push the worst the GOVT had to offer, she lost to TRUMP of all people.. watch her lose again come 2020
Eh, blah. It's a speech to his base. After all the crazy rhetoric Trump was allowed to get away with it, I see no problem with the way he feels. People forget half that country didn't vote for this clown and his approval ratings clearly show it.
I don't think she's running anymore. Her time came and left. It would be foolish for her to run again as a matter a fact. Let a fresh face and someone new take the podium. There's four more years to build on that and Trump clearly proved that anyone can run for POTUS..........anyone.
If by "we" you mean hardcore Trump supporters, I'm sure you're right. But "you" are a shrinking minority, as the approval ratings show.
I'm actually more bewildered and amused at the moment. I knew Trump wasn't a policy genius, but it's kind of shocking to see how incompetent and in over his head he really is. If he doesn't make some drastic changes, there's a good chance he won't even last 4 years.
Approval ratings of your fake news media? Yeah ok, we running scared now.
Yes, he won't make it past the primaries, wait, no way he wins the nomination, pfff zero chance of beating Hillary.... no way he lasts 4 years..... and yadda yadda yadda
the clintons are like herpes, just when you think they are gone they pop back up.
And like Herpes there is no cure for a case of Clintons.