Top Secret America

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by miles01110, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. miles01110 macrumors Core

    miles01110

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    #1
    What an awful piece of investigative journalism. The first article in the series leads off with;

    It then goes on to accuse the military-industrial complex of things such as

    among other things.

    I've spent the morning trying to reconcile the two quotes above. Paragraph one basically says that no one knows what resources are available to the growing intelligence/pseudo-military government/industry community. The second quote says that the system is broken. How can you determine if it's broken if you don't know anything about it? Retarded.
     
  2. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #2
    First, they clearly know a lot about it. Second, you don't have a secret if anymore than one person knows it, much less almost a million people, all with top secret clearence. That's like 50 people in my hometown of 15,000 all knowing a secret. I can guarantee you it won't stay 50 for long. Third, the only thing retarded was your use of that term. I've used it too, so I'm the pot, you're the kettle, but hey, I know what I am.
     
  3. miles01110 thread starter macrumors Core

    miles01110

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    #3
    Clearly they don't. Read the first paragraph.

    There's not "a" secret. There are many secrets that select groups of people know about and that others do not. Unless you'd like to make the ridiculous conjecture that everyone with a Top Secret clearance knows about everything classified Top Secret?
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    I don't get what your problem with this article is. :confused:
     
  5. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #5
    He lives in the "ivory" tower! Not the "ebony" tower!

    Seriously, what is your problem? We have a massive military and intelligence community, mostly because of the increases put in place under GWB, his daddy, and St. Reagan.

    What's your point?
     
  6. miles01110 thread starter macrumors Core

    miles01110

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    #6
    ...

    Or, how can you write an article with a premise based on information you admittedly do not know?
     
  7. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #7
    Or maybe they have a top-secret clearance and can't say they know!
     
  8. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    Oh boy- read the article again until it becomes clear.
     
  9. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #9
    Say, Mr. IRS Auditor, how can you possibly claim there is something wrong with my accounting practices when you admit my bookkeeping is virtually nonexistent and what's there makes no sense?

    Yeah, that ought to work.
     
  10. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #10
    Did you mean to that in this thread? :D
     
  11. yojitani macrumors 68000

    yojitani

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    #11
    I have not read the article yet (no time right now), but of course the two quotes you bring up in your post make sense. 'No one' does not mean 'no one outside of the intelligence community' - it means no one. Now, that's probably a bad thing because no one - I mean not a soul - can see the forest, if you know what I mean. Now this implies that "the system is broken." If the system were operating properly someone would know about the resources, however there is no oversight. We spend lots of money on it, yet no one knows if it's effective or not because (see sentence one again).
     
  12. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #12
    ?!

    If no one knows the basic structure of an organization, such as how many people are involved and how much money is being spent, such a structure is inherently disorganized and therefore, broken.

    It takes a leap of the imagination to believe that such an organization isn't a jumbled mess if such simple questions can't be answered and as the WaPo story notes in great detail, there are thousands involved in Top Secret programs, many of whom are not working under governmental auspices, something the article notes, may be legally problematic.


    Well, you start by figuring out what you don't know and you start asking questions and requesting documents. That's investigation.
     
  13. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #13
    (edit) I'm not an auditor. I'm a prosecutor. There's a difference.

    If the law requires you to have bookeeping, and auditing procedures, and you don't, then I can pretty easily say that you have something wrong, and in fact, can assess taxes based on your lack of information. You then will have a very fun time trying to overcome the case against you.

    This is a different situation, and I'm not sure what I think, other than to say it's possible to write an article pointing out the issues with the intelligence community without knowing every fact. (edit) especially if one of the issues is that no one knows all the facts.
     
  14. steve2112 macrumors 68040

    steve2112

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    #14
    It's not quite that simple. The article didn't really put having a clearance in perspective. Just having a TS doesn't enable someone to have access to all classified data. I have a clearance, but that doesn't mean I can go to the NSA, for example, and start viewing classified material. If you aren't cleared to view the information, you are not supposed to see it. Except for the very highest levels, a TS only gives you access to information needed for your job.

    Another problem is that after 9/11, jobs that used to only require a background check or secret clearance now require a TS. Even working in the same building where classified material might be held is enough to require a TS, even if you never even go near it. All of this has caused massive headaches. It took me 1.5 years to get my clearance because of the massive backlog at the agency that handles such things.

    A lot of the article was dead-on, though. I have seen the "his SCIF is bigger than mine. I want a new one!" mentality. I have also seen the various organizations hoarding info and jobs because they were afraid other companies/agencies would get the money and jobs. As for the budgeting: a big part of the problem is that once a project goes black, it's not subject to as much scrutiny as a normal project. That's another reason there are so many black projects now. The people running it don't have to justify their budget.
     
  15. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #15
    Heh. I wasn't referring to you. Didn't make that connection at all until you posted. Mostly it was a kind of shaky analogy for agreeing entirely with that last thing you said, in criticism of the OP's really weak argument.
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    CT
    #16
    Do presidents know of all the top secret projects that are going on. Considering that they are only there 4 to 8 years. When the government is working on things for decades do they let the president know considering he will really just be a blip on the radar.
     

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