Traffic infraction fines

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sydde, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #1
    A man in Finland was fined €54K for doing 64 in a 50.
    So is this fair? If traffic fines (and, for that matter, other types of fines) are flat rate, the people with lots of money will barely even notice them, but for most people, a fine of a few hundred dollars could put a squeeze on making it through the month.

    Our current system seems out of balance. What, if anything, should we do to fix it?
     
  2. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #2
    I like 90% of my generation am very familiar with this system, the Netherlands has three times tried to get this system passed into law.

    We have been over and over the pros and cons, but we have always just fallen short, to get a majority in the parliament.

    I am a big believer in this system.
     
  3. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #3
    This is a money grab pure and simple. There is no way a speeding fine should result in that kind of fine.
     
  4. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #4
    I like the system. I'm a firm believer that in order to deter and instruct, a punishment needs be severe. A few hundred dollar fine isn't gonna stop a rich bastard from speeding. Getting smacked for 5% of your income, that would get anyone to think twice about speeding.
     
  5. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    Sounds like a fair system, and it probably also leads to more sensible speed limits all round as rich people will be less likely to speed, and more likely to push for saner speed limits.
     
  7. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #7
    And for criminal activity, the length of a prison sentence should be dependent upon a person's temperament for incarceration.
     
  8. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #8
    I don't know that there is a good solution to traffic violations. It's easy to react quickly to what looks like a double standard. A ticket isn't a purchase though. It should be a deterrent and therefore punitive. Something like a $200 ticket wouldn't be punitive at all to this guy, so it's not an effective deterrent. The biggest problem with using financial punishment is really the potential for corruption and often lack of transparency. In that sense potential consequences should be easily discoverable in advance. Otherwise it wouldn't be that bad.
     
  9. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #9
    This just reeks of "lets sock it to the rich." It is clearly a double standard. Why shouldn't all people pay a % of their income for traffic infractions?

    So now, when I get a speeding ticket I have to head to court with my last 5 tax returns? Yeah, that isn't a violation of my right to privacy.:rolleyes:
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #10
    I presume they do.
     
  11. mgguy, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015

    mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #11
    Fine is not the only deterrent, and is much less effective in deterring initial offenses and reducing recidivism rates than is the threat of license suspension taken when a certain number of demerit points for traffic convictions are accumulated on the driving record over specific time periods (e.g., 1, 2, and 3 years). Since the assignment of demerit points are not determinate based on income or wealth, negligent operators are treated equally with respect to licensing actions.
     
  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    The fastest drivers do usually have the poshest cars to be fair.
     
  13. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #13
    I would argue that suspending or revoking licenses isn't a big deterrent either. I read a lot of reports of people driving on a suspended license.
     
  14. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #14
    It would be easier if they could in fact prevent these people from driving. I think a lot of people are likely to drive more carefully with a suspended license rather than not at all.

    Your examples display some of the problems with making it a financial matter, but that's basically it. It's not a purchase like a car, phone, or any other cliche item. If you're trying to dissuade someone from doing something, that requires leverage. Using financial leverage is problematic in many ways, but one of them is that guys like this would laugh off a $200 ticket and resume previous behavior within a few minutes. I guess other methods seem even less ideal. Are you going to pull someone's license after the second offense or place them on house arrest (jails just soak up tax dollars and never seem to work as a deterrent)? If you impound the vehicle you're back to financial leverage.
     
  15. mgguy, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015

    mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #15
    Suspended drivers sometimes drive anyway, but do it less and more safely than had they not been suspended to avoid detection and consequent penalties like vehicle impoundment for violating the suspension order. Numerous traffic safety research studies in California and other jurisdictions provide evidence for the general and specific beneficial effects of suspension and revocation of driving privileges.
     
  16. heehee macrumors 68020

    heehee

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    #16
    I think it's fair. One of my best friend drives a Lamborghini and he doesn't care if he gets a ticket, he pass it on to a paralegal and have them fight it off, he just cares if his license doesn't get suspended. He recently found a loophole he can get his license in another province if the other is suspended.

    Here in Ontario, if you go over 50km/h (30mph) police impound your car right on the spot, for 7 days. His car got impounded couple of times but he drives his other cars. A huge fine would definitely slow him down after a couple of tickets.
     
  17. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #17
    IMO, it's half way fair. There should be a limit. Let's say x% up to x amount of euros. With out that limit, it's unfair.
     
  18. Sydde thread starter macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #18
    That does not work in the US, the states share records with each other. If your license is suspended in one state, you will not be issued one in another state, because your suspension will be on record. Suspension does not affect the little card in your wallet, it affects your right to drive (not so much a right as a privilege). And often, I think, if a cop stops you in one state and finds you have a suspended license in another state, they will haul you in.
     
  19. tigres macrumors 68040

    tigres

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    #19
    Or how about a slow poor bastard. That will show him too.
    Good lord. Ever speed in your life, by sincere accendent?
     
  20. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #20
    Money grab. Welfare is expensive and someone has to pay for it without raising taxes and pissing everyone off.
     
  21. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #21
    Why not just adopt a points system?

    If you have so many infractions in x amount of years, you lose your license. (With the number of points gained depending on the severity of the infraction)

    I am not in favor of fining citizens for any traffic violations. In the US, for instance, this method harms more citizens than helps, IMHO. All too often, lower-class citizens are jailed for not being able to pay fines, which then causes them to miss work, and in turn they are left with even less money. It is a continuous cycle that wastes resources and tax dollars.

    Not only that, but our government has lost my trust and I don't enjoy giving them any money because I know it's not being used for the purposes intended.
     
  22. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #22
    If he's going below the speed minimum, fine him too.

    I speed plenty of times, but only on the race track. With my racing skill set, I could easily speed on the freeway and beat the cops 8 out of 9 times. But I never speed on the freeway or on city streets. Hail, I have never been pulled over by the police in all my 30+ years driving.

    Being a good driver means making others around you safer. If I had a dollar for every near accidents I have almost a part of, I'd be one rich bastard. I dream of the day when we have licensing system like they have in Europe. We would be rid of the worst 60% of the drivers on 'Muerican roads.
     
  23. heehee macrumors 68020

    heehee

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    #23
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving)#United_States
     
  24. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #24
    As someone pointed out, it already exists. If it was both significantly stricter and highly enforceable, it might work.
     
  25. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #25
    Thanks; I know there is a points system. However, fines still apply... and this is the part I do not agree with.

    Fines are a bad idea, any way you slice it.

    ----------

    Read my next post... and make it federal.
     

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