Trump’s Pardon Policy Tells Us Everything We Need to Know About Our President

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #1
    John Ziegler nails it again.

    https://www.mediaite.com/online/why...-our-president/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    Trump views humanity through the prism that there are two basic groups of people: the rich and/or famous, and everyone else. The first group matters greatly to him, the second means almost nothing.

    So, when evaluating the merits of a particular pardon, the facts/logic/justice have almost nothing to do with how much weight he gives to the case. It is the wattage of Stallone and Kardashian’s celebrity which is far more significant. We are now living in a world where it is far more important to have a celebrity take up your cause than for your cause to be just, and Trump is perfectly fine with that.

    In addition to seeing the world as split between people who are important (the rich and the famous) and those who are not, he also views humanity as divided between those who are pro-Trump and those are not. In his mind, those in the former group are obviously inherently good people and therefore deserving of special treatment.
     
  2. SoggyCheese Suspended

    SoggyCheese

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    #2
    Just one of Trump’s many many character flaws. Worst American ever.
     
  3. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    Not to take this on a tangent or excuse Trump's behavior, but how much of this is because of our own fondness of, almost addiction to, celebrities and reality TV? Trump treats everything like it's a game show to be won, and many of his followers seem to cheer him on for exactly the same reason.

    Are Trump and his followers just a sign of our times -- namely, cheap entertainment over anything that requires thinking? Indeed, the word intellectual has somehow become an epithet thrown at those of us who like to reason before acting.
     
  4. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    I get where you're going with this, but as a matter of pragmatism I would first deal with the concrete consequences of a rampant narcissist, and get to the "how did we get here?" whys a bit later...
     
  5. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #5
    Yes, spot on.
     
  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    Clever people have made more than their fair share of mistakes. We allowed the financial crisis to happen, we allowed Enron to happen and the Iraq war.

    We also haven't provided a clear path for people to advance their careers when they aren’t clever enough or had too many issues to go to university and we’ve allowed automation to decimate middle tier jobs.

    Plus there is stuff like http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20...-make-more-stupid-mistakes-than-everyone-else
     
  7. oldhifi macrumors 65816

    oldhifi

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    #7
    I think there some Democrats in there too..so I would say he is being fair..
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    The other thing that’s bad is if I make a clever quip about Trump I get lots of likes. Whereas if I say something more profound I don’t get very many.
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #9
    As if celebrity worship, the ridiculous commercial music industry, or Hollywood were conservative constructs. What's really going on here is that liberals are scared that some celebrities are crossing their picket line to build some bridges. They would much rather boycott anyone who associates with Trump, but that call is starting to break down. Trump-Russia collusion losing steam, May unemployment numbers lowest in two decades, minority unemployment lowest ever, NK buckling after Trump cancelled the summit on them.
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #10
    Bringing up all the fake talking points doesn’t help.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #11
  12. SoggyCheese Suspended

    SoggyCheese

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    #12
    Trump-Russia collusion is not losing steam. Quite the opposite is clear from anyone paying attention. It will drag him and his sons down.
     
  13. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #13
    Nothing is losing steam. No matter how many times you type it. Nothing has come from it? Are you kidding me? LOL.

    NK has buckled? Don't you think that's premature?

    DexMEDAUwAEeSRV.jpg
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 603

    LizKat

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    #14
    On the path thing, yes. We needed to recognize there'd be a time when the tool and die makers' jobs would be about setting up programs to make robots make the tools and dies. Now we've managed to convince at least two generations of parents that everyone needs at least community college (else how would the banks even survive?) but it's hard to find someone to weld a piece of machinery that's part of a robot for the tool and die shop.


    On the thing about intellectuals and thinking things through and making mistakes...


    Plenty of clever thieves end up behind bars because of some little detail, you know, like getting drunk before executing a robbery plot that was hatched while sober. Passing out inside the premises with cash from the till in a bag in hand... And while clever, it's not like they are ordinarily engaged in a lot of intellectual pursuits. More like necessity being the mother of invention.

    But people who like to think things through for themselves before taking a stance on a political issue are not necessarily intellectuals either. The word itself has acquired some baggage since way back in the 50s when Adlai Stevenson was mocked for being an egghead while running for President. I would hope that's not an excuse for failing to use one's own brain to consider political platforms.

    It's true Americans are popularly notorious for being "anti-intellectual" and the evidence of that would seem to be all around us even in our choice of entertainments like getting pulled over in a caravan of people doing 75 in a 45 zone once in awhile... but anyway a lot of us do still like to make up our own minds.

    Regardless of the level of "intellectual" effort used in making a decision, we can and do get in trouble when we don't at least question ourselves in like-minded groups no matter how large or small. Same as when a pair of experienced climbers decide jointly "hey we can do this, let's go" and they can until they can't and they make the papers for being dead together. The excitement of a potentially grand achievement sometimes gets too much of a thumb on the scale compared to consideration of the risks and the downside of the maneuver. Mistakes happen. Sometimes they're big ones. Sometimes they get made by policymakers and we go along for the ride because we didn't ask enough questions in timely fashion. To me this is the biggest argument for a fierce defense of the free press by people who instead are busy calling them all purveyors of fake news.
     
  15. Rogifan thread starter macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #15
    Which celebrities would that be? You really think Kanye wants to build bridges with Trump & his supporters? LOL.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 3, 2018 ---
    With Trump & his supporters the ends justify the means and in many cases all that matters to them are the means. Owning the libs is an end to itself.
     
  16. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #16
    The drop in unemployment has slowed from the rate at which it was falling under Obama.

    DDD81BC3-97CB-4D98-94F0-88EF6D8C953E.jpeg

    During the first 16 months under Trump the US economy has added an average of 185,000 jobs. During the last 16 months under Obama, the economy added an average of 215,000 jobs.
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    I think a lot of people don’t want to make robots. They want to do work with their hands. We need to be OK with that.

    I don’t think the world will end if Ikea has to charge $100 for a dining table rather than $60.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 3, 2018 ---
    To be fair that’s not a surprise given we are approaching full employment.
     
  18. LizKat macrumors 603

    LizKat

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    #18
    Yah there's a lot of "bonding" to Trump that's along the line of it takes one to know one. The celebrities are narcissists and so is Trump and it's always appealing to any narcissist who sees a spotlight to try to get some more of it for himself.

    Magnetic attraction. There ensues all manner of press coverage and then it sort of implodes, like "click.... contact!... wow! holy cow!!! ... yeah, so... what else ya got?" Rinse, repeat. Trump's a guaranteed PR enhancer if you can get with him. And Trump figures the press is double-bound to cover anything with him and some "lesser light" along for the ride. Win-win-win-win. The two celebs, the press and the infotainment addicts who are us.

    He's gonna pardon Martha Stewart? She went to jail for obstruction of justice. The pattern he's setting is pretty clearly aimed at enticing Cohen to keep his mouth shut. The thing is, maybe the stuff taken from Cohen doesn't need Cohen's elaboration.
     
  19. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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  20. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    I realize that what he just posted is a bunch of BS, but you’re not supposed to disparage posters like that.
     
  21. LizKat macrumors 603

    LizKat

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    LOL, good one....

    That's not the objection I have towards how Trump conducts his piece of this government.

    It's his incompetence: his flip flops on NK may be applauded by some as demonstration of a new way of showing NK who's boss but that's not what's been happening there and he's been played by more people than there are keys to a piano on that gig. And that's just his take on our relationship to one country. The state of our allied relationships is alarming. The state of our relationships to our two nearest neighbors is horrendous.

    To listen to his base, Trump's "keeping his promises". Yeah, he's burning down all the barns. I keep looking for the frameworks of the new ones. I see Mexico trading with Latin America. I see Canada saying ok we sell 90% of our steel to you guys and you jack the tariff, thanks so much and see you in hell on NAFTA, and Trump says well NAFTA, pffft, there could be unilateral deals...

    There could be a unilateral move on the part of Congress to remove this guy for arson. :rolleyes:

    Then there is his inability to pay attention to (much less "lead") more than his base. His apparent lack of concern over potential for corruption or atrophy of consumer protections thanks to the picks he made to lead some of our agencies. His disdain for even the appearance of propriety when it comes to his own conflicts of interest.

    There's more but it's lunchtime. :D
     
  22. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #22
    Trump could get us to 0% unemployment and you'd be complaining that the rate of unemployment decline had stopped. Get serious.
     
  23. SoggyCheese Suspended

    SoggyCheese

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    #23
    Trump would do that in a heartbeat. Full employment for everyone.

    But just as with those foolish enough to do business with him nobody would ever get paid.
     
  24. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #24
    We’ve had functional full employment for the last two years. I’m not complaining. I’m simply pointing out that almost none of this is Trump’s doing.
     
  25. appleisking macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    Exercise extreme caution here. When everything crashes next year because of his tariffs, rising interest rates, and the fact that we are due for a recession right about now you may be singing a different tune.
     

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39 June 2, 2018