Trump: “Barbed wire when used properly can be a beautiful thing.”

Rogifan

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That was a new line from Trump at a rally in Montana the other night. Absolutely disgusting. Of course the apologists will say but he said when used properly so no this doesn’t harken back to the Berlin Wall - he’s not trying to keep people in, he’s trying to keep people out. I don’t care. There is nothing beautiful about barbed wire. And the southern border is not being overrun by anyone.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1058824770597388289/pu/vid/960x540/yTERY-TimhoLaK5X.mp4?tag=5

https://twitter.com/jbmoorephoto/status/1058503357059514369?s=21





All I can hope for at this point is Republicans lose very badly on Tuesday. I hate saying that but the only way for the party to rid itself of Trump is for him to be proven to be a loser and someone the country rejects. And the only way that can happen is if the losses are big. The Democrats barely taking back the House and Republicans keeping the senate won’t do it. That’s why I hope the polls are wrong and there is a big wave. Having Democrats control both houses of Congress will be painful (for me) but if it gets Republicans who are lukewarm to Trump to finally say they’re done with him, it’s worth it.
 

Rogifan

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Well, honestly, barbed wire is a good deterrent when necessary. Which, it is when non citizens are trying to come here illegally. Sorry but we have a right to protect our borders. I know, that sickens the do-gooders but countries are allowed to do such things.

Geesh.
But it’s not a beautiful thing. And if this caravan is trying to come here illegally they’re sure going about it the wrong way. But explain something for me: how would a caravan of people - hundreds or thousands - even be able to cross the border illegally? I get where a handful of people might be able to do it and go unnoticed but hundreds or thousands? How? Also according to the Washington Post the border deployments could cost $200M by year end. Where is that money coming from?
 
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linuxcooldude

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It does not compare to the Berlin wall. The wall separated within its own country. Our boarders physically separate two different countries. Not sure if you like open boarders. We are allowed to protect our boarders cut & dry.
 

vrDrew

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Well, technically what Trump is referring to is actually called razor wire or concertina wire

It is different from barbed wire, in that it is used exclusively for security applications, where the object is to prevent human beings from crossing a defined perimeter. Barbed wire is these days used primarily to contain cattle and other grazing animals within a pasture. Barbed wire will not generally injure a stock animal (and its potentially valuable skin) very severely. Razor wire can create very severe lacerations on anyone attempting to cross it.

No: Razor wire is almost never a "beautiful sight." It is a stark physical reminder of the failings and miseries of human beings (crime, imprisonment, war.)

I would note: Even the most vicious-looking concertina or razor wire is not an impermeable barrier. It can often be defeated via the simple expedient of throwing a length of old carpet over it. To be effective, razor wire needs a permanent human security presence. And because of the (very real) danger it poses to grazing animals, it is unsuitable for use along the borders of agricultural pastureland.

I wouldn't put razor wire around my property and relish the sense of security it gave me. If I felt it necessary to put up such a barrier, it would most likely tell me I was living in the wrong place.
 
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PracticalMac

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Jan 22, 2009
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Well, honestly, barbed wire is a good deterrent when necessary. Which, it is when non citizens are trying to come here illegally. Sorry but we have a right to protect our borders. I know, that sickens the do-gooders but countries are allowed to do such things.

Geesh.
Razorwire is a 5 min speed bump to people determined to flee potential death.

and the first major rain storm in area will probably wash it all away, and cause trouble to people and animals wanting to simply go fish, or the patrols along the river.

Of course RW is something deployed at war zones, especially around camps and key locations to slow enemy combatants, not vast, wild stretches of terrain.
IOW, without a constant vigil, RW is practically useless.

Bottom line, it LOOKS great, but in reality is a massive waste of resources.

There are better ways to stop this with a long term results.
[doublepost=1541353439][/doublepost]
All I can hope for at this point is Republicans lose very badly on Tuesday. I hate saying that but the only way for the party to rid itself of Trump is for him to be proven to be a loser and someone the country rejects. And the only way that can happen is if the losses are big. The Democrats barely taking back the House and Republicans keeping the senate won’t do it. That’s why I hope the polls are wrong and there is a big wave. Having Democrats control both houses of Congress will be painful (for me) but if it gets Republicans who are lukewarm to Trump to finally say they’re done with him, it’s worth it.
What is really sad is wishing for Republicans to loose instead of Dems to win.

If only the R's had "tener cojones" and oppose #45, at the very least when #45 was clearly countering long established Republican doctrine, if not for national interest.
Alas they have completely abdicated their position, and a bunch of them know it and are abandoning ship (not seeking reelection) after voting for some myopic interests.

This is not just taking sides, but virtually taking arms, and in many cases physically taking arms, and even using it.
 
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Rogifan

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It does not compare to the Berlin wall. The wall separated within its own country. Our boarders physically separate two different countries. Not sure if you like open boarders. We are allowed to protect our boarders cut & dry.
And as I said in my original post I know some are going to make this argument. I know this isn’t the same as the Berlin Wall. But who is overrunning our county right now? This caravan is nowhere near our southern border. Trump is trying to invent a crisis on the border right now because he thinks it will help Republicans on Tuesday. I think just the opposite. I think this is turning off voters Trump didn’t already have. Another question I have is why the need to exaggerate and demonize who’s part of the caravan. If your argument is these people are trying to get in illegally and that’s not right/shouldn’t happen then why do you have to paint them all as young dangerous men/criminals (when that’s obviously not true)? There is no other reason than to make people afraid. Donald Trump has been president for nearly 2 years yet he wants citizens to think they need to fear for their safety. OK, why should I vote for someone (or his party) if he can’t keep me safe?
 
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linuxcooldude

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And as I said in my original post I know some are going to make this argument. I know this isn’t the same as the Berlin Wall. But who is overrunning our county right now? This caravan is nowhere near our southern border. Trump is trying to invent a crisis on the border right now because he thinks it will help Republicans on Tuesday. I think just the opposite. I think this is turning off voters Trump didn’t already have. Another question I have is why the need to exaggerate and demonize who’s part of the caravan. If your argument is these people are trying to get in illegally and that’s not right/shouldn’t happen then why do you have to paint them all as young dangerous men/criminals (when that’s obviously not true)? There is no other reason than to make people afraid. Donald Trump has been president for nearly 2 years yet he wants citizens to think they need to fear for their safety. OK, why should I vote for someone (or his party) if he can’t keep me safe?
When immigrants are throwing rocks wearing masks, breaking through barricades and rafting to Mexico illegally, all the while waving their own flags, does not look like they are painting a picture of people who are being persecuted. While I'm aware its not all of them, it also does not invoke a warm and fuzzy feeling the real reasons why they are coming here.
 
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T'hain Esh Kelch

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And as I said in my original post I know some are going to make this argument. I know this isn’t the same as the Berlin Wall. But who is overrunning our county right now? This caravan is nowhere near our southern border. Trump is trying to invent a crisis on the border right now because he thinks it will help Republicans on Tuesday. I think just the opposite. I think this is turning off voters Trump didn’t already have.
*That* should be the thing that makes voters actually think? o_O I am sorry, but if people aren't already opposed to Trump due to all the things he has said and done, there's nothing that will change their minds.
 
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bradl

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Jun 16, 2008
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Well, honestly, barbed wire is a good deterrent when necessary. Which, it is when non citizens are trying to come here illegally. Sorry but we have a right to protect our borders. I know, that sickens the do-gooders but countries are allowed to do such things.

Geesh.
Gee... makes you wonder where this sentiment would be when 90% of your ancestors came fresh off the boat. Would you still be applying this sentiment to them, especially since most didn't have a legal way to come here; they just showed up, took land, and there they were, making them NON-CITIZENS.

But I digress; your side already got theirs. :rolleyes:

BL.
 

bradl

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Huh? How does trying deter criminals prove he is trying to dehumanize people?
Because they aren't criminals until they cross the border. Until then, they haven't done a damned thing wrong, under any pretenses. You're already trying and accusing them and dehumanizing them for something they hadn't done yet.

Again, to throw another jkcerda quote into the mix, "Minority Report was only a movie."

BL.
 

lostngone

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Aug 11, 2003
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Because he talks about barbed wire which is used to contain animals.
Are we really arguing semantics hear? Makes it makes no difference to me, other than how effective it is.
[doublepost=1541365595][/doublepost]
Because they aren't criminals until they cross the border.
Fair enough, I assume they are installing this on the U.S. of the border and not the Mexican side?
 

Macky-Mac

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May 18, 2004
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... Of course the apologists will say but he said when used properly so no this doesn’t harken back to the Berlin Wall - he’s not trying to keep people in, he’s trying to keep people out....

IRCC, back in the day, "keeping people OUT" was actually the excuse the East German government used for their wall
 

Altis

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Sep 10, 2013
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Gee... makes you wonder where this sentiment would be when 90% of your ancestors came fresh off the boat. Would you still be applying this sentiment to them, especially since most didn't have a legal way to come here; they just showed up, took land, and there they were, making them NON-CITIZENS.

But I digress; your side already got theirs. :rolleyes:

BL.
It's so lovely when people use the indigenous people as the reason we must have open borders (as if any of them ever ask us), while forever going on about how Europeans coming was "taking land".

There wasn't a country with any kind of enforceable border at that time. That's just the reality of it. Nobody was a "citizen" until there was a country to be a citizen of. Everyone who came did so legally since there was no law stating otherwise.
 

Sydde

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Aug 17, 2009
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You are so right, it should be razor wire not barbed-wire.
I understand that you think I am being pedantic. Fair enough. But we are talking about the top dog in the US. I do not believe that he should be acting like an ignorant toddler. This is the embarrassment that we are supposed to look to for inspiration and leadership, and he is promoting a stupid and reckless agenda, which apparently means that he thinks we should all adopt reckless stupidity as the way forward. That is why a few of us are relentlessly critical of his foibles.
 

Eraserhead

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Nov 3, 2005
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Are we really arguing semantics hear? Makes it makes no difference to me, other than how effective it is.
Calling minorities animals is classic racism.

When Jeremy Corbyn called British zionists not British that was anti-Semitic
 

Rogifan

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When immigrants are throwing rocks wearing masks, breaking through barricades and rafting to Mexico illegally, all the while waving their own flags, does not look like they are painting a picture of people who are being persecuted. While I'm aware its not all of them, it also does not invoke a warm and fuzzy feeling the real reasons why they are coming here.
OK but the chances of then actually getting here AND entering the country illegally is?
 

ChrisWB

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Dec 28, 2004
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When immigrants are throwing rocks wearing masks, breaking through barricades and rafting to Mexico illegally, all the while waving their own flags, does not look like they are painting a picture of people who are being persecuted. While I'm aware its not all of them, it also does not invoke a warm and fuzzy feeling the real reasons why they are coming here.
Do you have any evidence of U.S. asylum seekers "throwing rocks", "wearing masks", or "breaking through barricades"?
 
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