Trump accused of plagiarising family crest

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Raid, May 31, 2017.

  1. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #1
    I saw this on the BBC website, I think it's on the lighter side of all the Trump issues:
    Trump is making things too easy for comedians. He replaces the Latin word for integrity with his family name and adds a big head with crap spilling out of it!

    Isn't there a formal process for heraldic crests? Or is that just a British thing?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #2
    Go figure that the major significant change is removing "Integrity" in favor of his own name.
     
  3. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #3
    Well, there's also the lettuce-headed kinnigget.
     
  4. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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  5. IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #5
    Lettuce-head? I like it. Makes sense. His hair has a bit of that lettucy, helmety thing going. More tellingly, like his brain, lettuce is basically bland, crispy padding that in small doses adds to a sandwich but is often piled too high in order to conceal how skimpy its substantial ingredients are and make it feel like you've gotten your money's worth when in actuality you've been fleeced.
     
  6. Raid thread starter macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #6
    I did say it was minor... and I don't know about 'the worst', in last year's election yes, but (and this is totaly pun intended) he is certainly removing integrity from his image. How about this? I'll give him a pass on this if he keeps America's commitment to the Paris Accord.
     
  7. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #7
    Not in the U.S.
    Unless the image is protected by copyright, there isn't anything anyone can do about it.
     
  8. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #8
    Nope. Attack him for this and we will pull out of the PA.
     
  9. Raid thread starter macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #9
    The article did say the original was "registered in 1939" don't know if that's a retired copyright thing or something else.
     
  10. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  11. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #11
    well about time you worked that out bravo.
     
  12. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #12
    Probably refused to pay the graphic artist he contracted to draw it.
     
  13. Raid thread starter macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #13
    ...You must have read "The Art of the Deal". :rolleyes:
     
  14. vrDrew, May 31, 2017
    Last edited: May 31, 2017

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Yes. There is a formal process. In England, Northern Ireland, Wales, and most of the Commonwealth Countries, one makes an application to the College of Arms. (In Scotland, you apply to the Court of The Lord Lyon - don't ask me why.)

    A Coat of Arms is usually only granted to a person, or organization, of some standing and notability. They don't have exact criteria, but not just anybody gets one. It's also quite expensive. On the nature of £5,875 for an individual, and up to £18,350 for a commercial company. Details to be provided in the application include elements surrounding one's family, the geograhphical area on is most associated with, and any professional or athletic achievements of note, as well as a sketch to give inspiration to the College Artists.

    [​IMG] This is the coat of arms granted to Miss Catherine Middleton immediately prior to her marriage (which turned her into Catherine, Duchess, of Cambridge and a future Queen of England. The elements in the Coat of Arms are quite specific:

    Coats of Arms cannot, by law, just be appropriated by just anyone. Some other Catherine Middleton, or some other member of the Middleton family can't start using this coat of Arms as their own. Coats of Arms may be passed down in the paternal line to sons. For example, Catherine's father (Michael) has a Coat of Arms that is similar, except it doesn't have the blue ribbon at the top. Catherine's brother James would be entitled to use this as the "Middleton Family Coat of Arms", and pass that on to any sons he had. Pippa, sadly, cannot. Is that unfair and sexist? Probably yes. But Pippa did get blessed with fabulous derriere, which she may well pass on to any daughters she may have. So life works out in the end.

    The USA doesn't have quite the same thing, at least for civilians. There arern't any rules or laws preventing you from using any coat of arms you want. The US Army, does, however, maintain an Insitute of Heraldry, which maintains records and regulations regarding specific unit insignia, patches, etc.

    Some US military units have famously awful patch imagery. Some, like the notorious "Pork-Eating Crusader" achieve legendary status

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #15
    Much as I confused them today because I'm an idiot I think they are more different.
     
  16. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #16
    [​IMG]
    The arms of Terry Pratchett

    "Don't fear the Reaper"
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    The Court of lord Lyon disagrees ;)
     
  19. vrDrew, May 31, 2017
    Last edited: May 31, 2017

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Well, the thing is, that Coat of Arms already belongs to somebody else.

    The coat of arms was granted to Joseph Edward Davies, a lawyer and diplomat, in 1939. Mr Davies subsequently married Marjorie Merriwether Post - who owned Mar-a-Lago in Florida. They subsequently divorced, but evidently Mr Davies left a few items lying around the estate with his coat of arms on them. Because they obviously were seen by short-fingered vulgarian Donald Trump, who decided to - basically - steal it for himself.

    By law, Mr Davies Coat of Arms belongs to his male descendants, one of whom Joseph Tydings (Mr. Davies grandson) is a former US Senator from Maryland. According to Mr. Tydings, several members of his family has actively discussed suing Trump over the appropriation of their family arms. Apparently they have desisted, based mainly on the legendary time and expense of having to take Donald Trump to court.
     
  20. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #20
    IIRC, one of the owners of Marilago obtained a coat of arms through the proper legal channels. He may have had it carved into a fireplace (or something similar) at his home. and when he sold the house, neglected to efface it. When the house was purchased by Trump, Trump may have seen the arms, and assumed that he owned the design. But according to Scottish law, the right to use a coat of arms is "incorporeal heritable property"-- ie it passed to the grantees heirs, and did not come with the house. And when Trump used it to promote his Scottish golf courses, he ran afoul of Scottish law.)

    (BTW, the "crest" refers only to the bit on top of the helm. The entire design, including the design of the shied, is called "the arms", or "armorial bearings.")

    Ah, the cluelessness of the Nouveau Riche.
     
  21. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #22
    My family crest and coat of arms.
    My relatives came over from Scotland in the mid 1600's to what is now Georgia.

    "Never unprepared"

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #23
  23. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #24
    Trump is a testicle free, fat, fruitcake whose hardest chore was lifting his silver spoon but this thread is an eye roller...We don't do coats of arms or royalty in America, egalitarianism and all that..
     
  24. jerwin, May 31, 2017
    Last edited: May 31, 2017

    jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Arms are described using the language of blazon. A competent heraldic artist can take that description and render it in a pleasing manner. Theoretically, you could write a computer program that takes in blazon, and spits out an svg file.

    So, Terry Pratchett's arms are described as follows:

    Sable an ankh between four Roundels in saltire each issuing Argent.

    And these are considered to be exactly equivalent:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Theoretically, you could write a computer program that takes in blazon, and spits out an svg file.

    Additionally, there's a standard of how to represent colors using various patterns of dots and lines. It tends to be horribly mangled by graphics compression algorithms, but it should be possible for someone to look at the "Trump" arms, and claim, "those are red chevrons against an ermine backround. And those lions are silver. It's an exact duplicate"
     

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