Trump contagion analogy

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jpietrzak8, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #1
    A very interesting analogy about how Trump does business came up in an opinion piece in the Times, and I thought I'd see what folks here think of it. This was after Comey's testimony:

    As Stephen Burbank, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School, put it to me: “Trump’s business is infecting the people around him. To show loyalty you have to engage in the corrupt or mendacious behavior he engages in. So he’s a form of contagion — and Comey did not want the investigation infected.”​

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/09/opinion/james-comey-senate-testimony-donald-trump.html?_r=0

    Seems appropriate for how Trump acted in this case; how many more people have done shady things because Trump "hoped" they would do so?
     
  2. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #2
    From Alan Dershowitz


    Comey's opening testimony: Trump admin lied, defamed me

    In his testimony former FBI director James Comey echoed a view that I alone have been expressing for several weeks, and that has been attacked by nearly every Democratic pundit.

    Comey confirmed that under our Constitution, the president has the authority to direct the FBI to stop investigating any individual. I paraphrase, because the transcript is not yet available: the president can, in theory, decide who to investigate, who to stop investigating, who to prosecute and who not to prosecute. The president is the head of the unified executive branch of government, and the Justice Department and the FBI work under him and he may order them to do what he wishes.

    As a matter of law, Comey is 100 percent correct. As I have long argued, and as Comey confirmed in his written statement, our history shows that many presidents—from Adams to Jefferson, to Lincoln, to Roosevelt, to Kennedy, to Bush 1, and to Obama – have directed the Justice Department with regard to ongoing investigations. The history is clear, the precedents are clear, the constitutional structure is clear, and common sense is clear.

    Yet virtually every Democratic pundit, in their haste to “get” President Trump, has willfully ignored these realities. In doing so they have endangered our civil liberties and constitutional rights.

    Now that even former Director Comey has acknowledged that the Constitution would permit the president to direct the Justice Department and the FBI in this matter, let us put the issue of obstruction of justice behind us once and for all and focus on the political, moral, and other non-criminal aspects of President Trump’s conduct.

    Comey’s testimony was devastating with regard to President Trump’s credibility – at least as Comey sees it. He was also critical of President Trump’s failure to observe the recent tradition of FBI independence from presidential influence. These are issues worth discussing but they have been distorted by the insistence of Democratic pundits that Trump must have committed a crime because they disagree with what he did politically.

    Director Comey’s testimony was thoughtful, coherent and balanced. He is obviously angry with President Trump, and his anger has influenced his assessment of the president and his actions. But even putting that aside, Comey has provided useful insights into the ongoing investigations.

    I was disappointed to learn that Comey used a Columbia law professor as a go-between to provide information to the media. He should have has the courage to do it himself. Senators must insist that he disclose the name of his go-between so that they can subpoena his memos and perhaps subpoena the professor-friend to provide further information.

    I write this short op-ed as Comey finishes his testimony. I think it is important to put to rest the notion that there was anything criminal about the president exercising his constitutional power to fire Comey and to request – “hope” – that he let go the investigation of General Flynn. Just as the president would have had the constitutional power to pardon Flynn and thus end the criminal investigation of him, he certainly had the authority to request the director of the FBI to end his investigation of Flynn.

    So let’s move on and learn all the facts regarding the Russian efforts to intrude on American elections without that investigation being impeded by frivolous efforts to accuse President Trump of committing a crime by exercising his constitutional authority.
     
  3. Zwopple macrumors regular

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    #3
    Regardless of the authority of the FBI the Director can disobey orders from the president (yet must pay the price of dismissal if the president thinks so).

    The government is not a military structure in which it is illegal to disobey orders from your boss, merely it can get you fired.

    So yes it is legal President Trump to order the FBI to do anything he pleases, but we don't know all the details. What if the FBI already has conclusive evidence that there was criminal activity and Trump was privy to that but still attempting to shut it down? That is a clear case of obstruction of justice.
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
    This is obviously a problem if the source of the investigation is within the Executive branch. Even if the president has the right, it's obviously not right to do so if the intent is to protect your administration from being exposed as corrupt.

    Surely you can agree with that.

    (I'm not asking you to agree about anything to do with this current situation. I'm simply asking whether you agree with the principle.)
     
  5. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #5
    I agree with you on that principle. My opinion though is that this is not why Comey was fired. YMMV of course. My opinion is that Trump was simply being Trump in that he saw the matter with Flynn as over when he fired him and that he wanted his team at the FBI onto other things. I agree with the FBI that perhaps if Flynn actually committed a crime he does need pursuied and investigated and I think Trump disagrees which I think is wrong and dumb but that's Trump. I don't believe Trump is trying to 'cover up' or hide anything. He's not dumb, he knows the truth is going to surface eventually and if there was truth there and he was on the take somehow, he's going down. I don't buy that though.
     
  6. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #6
    I'm going (somewhat) with Ryan's excuse (although I was always told that ignorance of the law doesn't make an excuse for it). Trump is a business man and he thinks the wheeling/dealing/favors/etc that go down in a business deal are legitimate for the political world.
     
  7. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #7
    Ryan's excuse is a poor one. who ever wrote up his talking points did a poor job. Sarah Huckabee did a poor job too. When someone calls your boss a liar you don't respond with an emphatic "he's not a liar" response. Both show poor public PR Skills.
     
  8. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #8
    Worse - they didn't just say he wasn't a liar - they then tried to reverse it by calling Comey a liar... but only about the things they didn't like.
     
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #9
    Like Obama did by using EP to stop Holder from testifying?
    --- Post Merged, Jun 9, 2017 ---
    obvious lies on some things and not others :p
     
  10. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #10
    I won't call Comey a liar, but he's not exactly a stellar example of credibility either.

    He's a self admitted source of leaking information. I also question whether he might not be looking to out other leakers and or have leaked more documents.

    He admits being less than brave at confronting Trump and calls his own actions cowardly.

    If he felt undue pressure over the Flynn Matter, he flopped there too. He did nothing except sit on the information and reacted in a way that was less than what we should expect from someone with his experience and in his position.

    He was willing to go against his own self noted morals and call Clinton's email scandel a "matter" caving to Lynch and her pressure, which all in all was untrue as it WAS an investigation and by his own admittence it was. That said he did the polar opposite for Trump and wouldn't even come out and tell the public the one thing that WAS TRUE about Trump and that is that Trump indeed WASN'T under investigation. Thinking about it, he actually is a liar.

    The biggest liars in all this prove to be the media and their unnamed sources.
     
  11. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #11
    Comey and the Columbian prof is a named source.

    The difference here though is Hillary wasn't president and had no ability to do anything to Comey - Trump on the other hand - well - we saw what can happen when you cross him.
     
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #12
    should have fired him day one.
     
  13. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #13
    not at the time of the leak. it was reported as an un-named former gov't official that read the memo to the NY Times reporter. Turns out he is a former FBI agent that reported to Comey and is now a University Prof.

    Hilllary couldn't do anything to Comey but he testified that Lynch - his boss was taking the side of Hilary and wanted him to call it a "matter" in order to match the talking points of her campaign. Talk about collusion! Makes me wonder how many times Comey was put under such undue pressure and forced to go down this dark path.
     
  14. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #14
    it's OK when democrats do it........
     
  15. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #15
    No - it's just worse (to me) when it's the President.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #16
    was Obama not the president when Lynch interfered?
     
  17. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #17
    Is Lynch President?
     
  18. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #18
    does the buck not stop at the top?
     
  19. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #19
    Prior Republican Administration actually.
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #20
    still trump wins
    [​IMG]
     
  21. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #21
    Sorry - Obama and Comey are broke? How?

    Oh right - another meme from you rather than dialogue ;)
     
  22. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #22
    [​IMG]
    Surprisingly that's why many voted for him.
     
  23. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #23
    Comey is a joke. He helped undermine Hillary and for that I am grateful. I really have no further use for him.Hit the bricks, coward!
     
  24. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #24
    Obama, never thought Trump would be president, his drop the mic joke backfired
    Comey? who would hire an "intelligence" clown who leaks memos? other than me if he had the good stuff on Hillary?

    your welcomed :D
     
  25. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #25
    Meme's are fun. Memes are light-hearted. How long can we drone on about how much we hate the other side?

    I prefer GIPHS myself.

    giphy-downsized (1).gif
     

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