Trump decides to die on the hill of confederate statues

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rogifan, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Rogifan macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #1
    This clearly shows there is no one advising Trump other than maybe Bannon, Miller and Gorka. And that the nucleus of his support is white nationalists and those who won’t call themselves that but agree with them. It’s one thing to make an argument that removing these statues is not the right thing to do but to compare Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson to Washington and Jefferson? And to refer to these statues as beautiful? And not just part of our history but our culture? He’s just singing David Duke and Richard Spencer’s song. He’s saying I’m with you. It’s disgusting. It’s repugnant.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    I think it is time we all just pack our bags and find a new place to live and give the USA back to the Indians.
     
  3. Rogifan thread starter macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #3
    I though my state of Minnesota was embarrassing. Maine takes the cake though. Just waiting for Trump to retweet this.

     
  4. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #4
    I'm disgusted - but at the same time I hope he completely flames out - and soon.
     
  5. Rogifan thread starter macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #5
    What’s really stupid is while polls show a majority do NOT support removing these statues a much larger number DO NOT support white nationalists. After Charlottesville and now all of Trump’s comments that’s exactly who these statues are going to be associated with. Also this polling datA could be less about history or slippery slope than just not wanting to make a fuss. Well Trump doesn’t know how to do anything but that. The only card Trump knows how to play is picking fights with the media and the Left except this time it all depends on revving up neo-Nazis. That is so politically dumb. Like I said yesterday this White House is a dumpster fire.
     
  6. Volgin Suspended

    Volgin

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    #6
    He's right.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 17, 2017 ---
    You're operating under the belief that every confederate affixed, soilder, etc. was a white supremacist racist. Lee loved his country and his state. He wasn't driven by racism and slavery. The left seems to have a very limited view of things, it seems.
     
  7. Rogifan thread starter macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #7
    I’m not. And I’m not arguing all these statues should come down. That’s an issue for each state to decide not the national Left and Right to use for politics. But the people marching in Charlottesville were white supremacists and neo-Nazis. The biggest defenders of these statues right now are bigots and racists. Why the hell does Trump want to die on that hill?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. iLunar macrumors 6502

    iLunar

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    #8
    What don't you understand this isn't about what Lee did, but about the Jim Crowe era that Lee represents. The Nazi swastika was also a religious symbol about peace and harmony until Hitler mis-appropriated it.
     
  9. Volgin Suspended

    Volgin

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    #9
    You guys need to alter your focus. You're getting spun up over the wrong thing. If people just ignored these "nazis" then nothing would have happened.
     
  10. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #10
    Qui tacet consentiret.
     
  11. iLunar macrumors 6502

    iLunar

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    #11
    No way. Why do we exist in society if not to protect fundamental human rights? Inequality, violence, white-supremacy are anathema to our republic. If you want to go ahead and ignore that, I'll go ahead and call you unpatriotic.
     
  12. GrumpyMom macrumors 603

    GrumpyMom

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    #12
    Thanks for starting this thread @Rogifan. I wanted to talk about this but I'm really bad with words lately, especially on this subject. I had no idea how to initiate the conversation.

    My concern with Trump's tweets is that they show he is too dense to grasp the nuances of this pivotal moment of his presidency. A woman just died. People are mourning her loss to senseless violence initiated by an indefensible hateful ideology. Now is not the time for him to be tweeting about the damned statues. The statues can be put into museums. Heather Heyer can not be brought back to life.

    He has not given her death the respect it deserves: he has not held to account the ideologies that killed her with nearly the same passion with which he has diffused blame from the white supremacists or the passion with which he has praised and "whitewashed" the origins and meanings of these memorials.

    Trump had the opportunity to unite this nation in the way we had hoped Obama would, but clearly failed. Obama also fell on the sword of his own arrogance, played identity politics, and favored one side too blatantly over the other. He possibly pushed neutral people who felt forgotten over the line into white nationalism. I wasn't really expecting someone as brash and polarizing as Trump could succeed in uniting where a calmer intellectual like Obama failed. But the brazen favoritism he has shown the "alt right" has surprised me. I always had the impression he had been more of a New York liberal in his youth.

    I have seen his interviews when he was a much younger man and he seemed to have a more healthy vision of how he would lead the country if he ever had a chance. Much has changed in him since then. He lost whatever virtues he might have possessed and his faults have greatly magnified.

    He was not a stupid man. He was ruthless and arrogant and he wasn't always the superior businessman he claimed to be. But he was never stupid, as far as I ever heard. Going off message from the planned discussion on infrastructure to make that rant of his was plain stupid. Even people who hold the same views would have to notice that wasn't going to work out well for him. He has lost all support he was getting from the business community for his initiatives to stimulate the economy.

    I have to wonder why he is such a mess. Is he in the early stages of dementia? Has he lived too long in an echo chamber that fed his narcissism to the point he can no longer relate at all to people who don't serve his interests? Really, what's wrong with him?
     
  13. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #13
    That is a ridiculous statement.

    Also, the North won and it's time the South **** and accept it. The confederates were traitors and I hope they burn in hell. The victors write history and I say **** southern slave owning history.
     
  14. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #14
    You sound a lot like Trump.

    "REPORTER: Does the statue of Robert E. Lee stay up?

    TRUMP: I would say that’s up to a local town, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located."
     
  15. Rogifan thread starter macrumors P6

    Rogifan

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    #15
    Yes I think localities should decide. Not Nazis/mobs.

    But Trump also said removing these statues is tearing the country apart. That’s nonsense. He’s playing this up becuase he (or Steve Bannon) thinks it’s a wedge issue that’s good for Trump politically. Same thing that Obama did with gay rights and the furor over someone not baking a wedding cake for a gay couple. This is all politics to gin up the base.
     
  16. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #16
    where s trump name?
     
  17. IronWaffle, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017

    IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #17
    This whole episode is simply depressing.



    And a view from outside our filthy fishbowl:


    Full, short piece here:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-40954179
     
  18. Marshall73 macrumors 65816

    Marshall73

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    #18
    That worked out pretty well for Adolf Hitler.
     
  19. MadeTheSwitch, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017

    MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #19
    Yeah, nothing says love of country like trying to tear it apart. :rolleyes:

    It's interesting that Trump thinks the "beauty" of these statues can never be replaced. Sure they can. Easily. And frankly I would think he would want them replaced with statues of him. In gold of course...none of this low brow bronze stuff.
     
  20. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #20
    This was all Trumps plan. What do you think he meant when he said make America great again. He meant white people only. And his supporters agree.
     
  21. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #21
    Must have been a microscopic asterisk because I didn't see that.
     
  22. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #22
    The Nazi's at the rally were using the Detroit Redwings logo, now that's associated with this movement. Should the team find a new logo now as well?
     
  23. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #23
    His core supporters did. Just talk to them they want white people only. There is a lot of racism in Trumps message that the alt-right latched on too.
     
  24. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #24
    Ignoring nazis...ignoring nazis....hmmm.

    I vaguely remember this being a strategy used a while back, with some pretty awful consequences.
     
  25. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #25
    Sorry - what? If you ignore the nazis then everything would have been ok? I wonder if you realize how dangerous a statement you just made.
     

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